The Great Winter Heating Experiment

[thiambal]

Hi All,

Some months ago I mentioned on this forum that myself and Memsahib intended to use the central heating a little as possible in the coming winter - snorts of derision and suggestions that one of us would crack were heard from all quarters.

So time for an update I think.

So far we have only used the central heating on six occassions...

Eldery Relatives Visiting x 2
The Memsahib being off sick with a slight cold x 1
Me being off sick with the Black Death x 1
Helping some new lining paper to dry out x 2

Now to be honest I thought this was going to be a real struggle and on past experience I expected me to crack after only a few days but I really cannot say I have ever been particularly uncomfortable. We have used the fire in the lounge a couple of times a week and out an extra blanket on the bed but have not have to put extra jumpers on or anything.

Now I must admit that the winter had not be really cold yet. But on the other hand, there cannot be many houses more poorly insulated than ours and therefore susceptable to the cold.

Every morning I have come into the office and thought, blimey it is hot in here. My collegaues then come in and complain about how cold the building is. My conculsion is that the majority of the population heat their houses too often and to too high a tempreature.

So, I suggest a change in the law to enforce restrictions on use of central heating. Work out some way of preventing central heating from heating a house to more than say 19 degrees and prevent it from coming on until the tempreture drops below say 17 degrees. Obviously, this change would take years to bring in and it would perhaps not work for houses without conventional GFCH but that would be the minority.

This would have three effects......save people money, lower carbon emmissions, reduce the scale of our energy supply problem.

The I idea is full of holes I am sure and no doubt you clever chaps and chapesses will point them out......but in the mean time, I commend the idea to the house.

 

[Lime]

Now I must admit that the winter had not be really cold yet.

I think that is the reason you have found it "easy".

But I think you have a point about houses and offices being too hot.

 

[Mark]

The Memsahib being off sick with a slight cold x 1
Me being off sick with the Black Death x 1

:lol:

Agree though, I have the thermostat set to about 12c and have to turn it up when the aged and infirm (our various parents/gparents) visit or if the kids complain.

When we visited my inlaws over xmas I had to turn the radiators off and open the window in our room - I was still too hot.

The other thing I notice is how dry modern houses feel. Our house feels 'fresh' whereas I can feel myself drying out in most places.

 

[Flyfisher]

But I think you have a point about houses and offices being too hot.

I went to our building Soc last week to pay in some cheques and while standing in the queue I thought I might actually pass out from the heat. I kid you not, it was unbearable, even after taking off my coat. OK, I was under the heating duct in the ceiling for some of the time, but the whole office was like an oven.

I can't stand being too hot at home and can never sleep without the window open. We also find that snuggling under a duvet on the sofa is a great energy saver :wink:

 

[CHRIS]

There is also another thing you can do under the duvet but the wife has banned my new chill cookbook from Texas!!!!

 

[yoofookinwah]

Hark at you guys with the luxury of central heating.

I have a 4 bed victorian house and just one room has a cast iron fire place allowing me to light a fire.

Central heating, never heard of it!

 

[Jocelyn]

We have been in this house since June. At the onset of Autumn I uttered the same mantra ' we'll try and get through without using the oil central heating.' This is a timber frame , 2 storey property with stone floors, quite thick walls, two very efficient log burning stoves and an electric aga. So there's no excuse for feeling cold, all in the mind I tell myself as I put the on extra cardigan and cosy rugs on the beds and fluffy slippers, hot soups etc.
We have three out of 8 radiators switched off completely because of antique furniture in front of them

BUT: Findings during the chilly week before Christmas:-

1.When leaving the cosy areas of the house, the unheated bits seem colder than they really are.
2. The beds feel cold when you get into them. ( ok hot water bottle- or electric blanket -the latter defeats the energy save bit)
3. I feel snug and cosy in bed but i start to sneeze as soon as the cold air creeps into my nostrils
4. I HATE wet bath towels
So what did I do? I put the heating on for two hours in the morning and two late at night, result condensation.
Tried it at 17c on constant.. too hot.
Most successful remedy:
Lit the large log burner in the dining hall and kept it going. After 2 days, combined with the aga warmth the whole house seemed better and the main bedroom in the room above was very pleasant.
But we still have not had a really cold winter yet.!! It's a night mare, but possibly worth persevering with because I think one can adjust to it both mentally and physically. The room thermometer that I have has not yet gone below 15c yet.

Let's see-------!!

 

[Flyfisher]

Tried it at 17c on constant.. too hot.

Have you tried a lower setting on the CH? Ignore what the dial says, just lower it step by step until things are not too hot. You might find that even as low as, say 10-12c the chill would be taken off the house and those thick stone walls would start to act as low-level storage heaters. From there the cardigans and fluffy slippers will have more chance of working

As for the bed, I couldn't live without an electric blanket. I don't actually know their typical wattage but I can't think it's much more than a couple of lightbulbs. Anyway, I'm happy to have a cool bedroom as long as I can get into a warm bed so I'm sure I'm saving energy overall.

 

[thiambal]

Get into the cold bed, cuddle up to a person, soft toy, pillow etc, and in two - three mins the bed is warm.

Electric blanket ...pah! :wink:

 

[andrew gayton]

J - my woodburner has been going since early december, by way of shutting down the flue and using oak...... and yes, the whole house has warmed up to be very comfortable.... bearing in mind the house is flint (abysmal insulation/u value due to this) ........... and the smell of the woodburner is like nothing else.

 

[Matey Plumber]

It was said...

"Hark at you guys with the luxury of central heating.
I have a 4 bed victorian house and just one room has a cast iron fire place allowing me to light a fire.
Central heating, never heard of it!"

Well said that man!!
My 3 bed high ceilinged victorian home has one gas fire now - last year saw the death of the other gas fire (knob came off) and the storage heater both of which died on New Years Day 2006
Sods law of course, the gas fire that works is upstairs so downstairs gets quite chilly.

So for last 12 months it's been the old gas fire in the living room and little portable electrics when I feel generous.
I hate feeling cold and find that central heating often leaves me feeling chilly whereas a radiant heat does the job lovely.

So how does one cope without 60+ degs heat in every room?

I tend to cook more proper dinners in the oven than I did and make good use of an "Oxfam" blanket (that's one made from knitted squares and making it kept me occupied for ages) Unfortunately that often leads to my falling asleep on the settee in the evening....

Because the house has an Economy 7 meter I have little electric heaters on during the night for a couple of hours to take the chill off the rooms.
Mind you, it's not been too cold yet this winter - Jan and Feb can be really nasty. I've been dreading this winter.

 

[Jane Smith]

Smug, snug me.

We live in the middle of nowhere, up on the Yorkshire moors. Our house's oldest bit are 400 years old, its newest bit is about 165 years old. It is draughty, big and almost always cold, despite us spending about £3,000 each year on heating oil. Except that year we've only switched the central heating on about half a dozen times, and despite that it is now lovely and toasty warm. The best bit is that not only is it not costing us to heat our house, but we're actually getting paid to do so.

How? We put up a 6kW wind turbine 18 months ago and it's powerful enough to provide almost all our electricity and to also heat the house. I'm in heaven.

 

[Penners]

I suggest a change in the law to enforce restrictions on use of central heating. Work out some way of preventing central heating from heating a house to more than say 19 degrees and prevent it from coming on until the tempreture drops below say 17 degrees.

You may think that's a good idea.

I may think that's a good idea.

But you try explaining it to the present Mrs P.

 

[Penners]

We put up a 6kW wind turbine

Wow! That's a big 'un for a domestic job.

How high is it, and what diameter are the blades? Have you worked out what the pay-back period is going to be?

 

[Jane Smith]

It's on a 9m mast, and each rotor blade is about 2m long. It's a Proven.

It cost about £12,000 for the turbine and mast, and another £11,000 for associated stuff: batteries, inverters, controllers.... We got a £5,000 grant towards the cost, though, so total cost to us was about £18,000. That £11,000 was only required because we live off-grid, and our old batteries and inverter were dying. On-grid people wouldn't need it.

Payback period: well. We had the choice of getting a new diesel gen-set or getting a wind turbine. We're in a fabulously windy location (our average w/s here is 8.4m/s against a national average of 5.4) and hated the generator, which used to run every day for 5 1/2 hours, was unreliable, and horribly expensive to run when you factor in fuel and servicing (when you depend on it, you service often). We should get about £800 a year in ROCs, and are saving a good £1,500 a year in generator costs, probably more (can't remember what it was, don't have the folder to hand, sorry), plus the heating costs, of course.

And on top of that it's a gorgeous thing. Thrilling to see, especially when it's whapping round like it is at the moment. I love our wind turbine.

(By the way, I can't say the same for the little Windsave ones currently on sale at B&Q for £1,498. There's one near here and yesterday, when ours was producing more than the 6kW which is meant to be the maximum it's capable of, the Windsave was not turning at all. If you know of anyone considering getting one, point out that by the most optimistic calculations it'll provide an average of 300w per hour and you can save that by spending £17 on low-energy light-bulbs.)

 

[yoofookinwah]

It was said...

"Hark at you guys with the luxury of central heating.
I have a 4 bed victorian house and just one room has a cast iron fire place allowing me to light a fire.
Central heating, never heard of it!"

Well said that man!!
My 3 bed high ceilinged victorian home has <b>one gas fire now</b> - last year saw the death of the other gas fire (knob came off) and the storage heater both of which died on New Years Day 2006
Sods law of course, the gas fire that works is upstairs so downstairs gets quite chilly.

So for last 12 months it's been the old gas fire in the living room and little portable electrics when I feel generous.
I hate feeling cold and find that central heating often leaves me feeling chilly whereas a radiant heat does the job lovely.

So how does one cope without 60+ degs heat in every room?

I tend to cook more proper dinners in the oven than I did and make good use of an "Oxfam" blanket (that's one made from knitted squares and making it kept me occupied for ages) Unfortunately that often leads to my falling asleep on the settee in the evening....

Because the house has an Economy 7 meter I have little electric heaters on during the night for a couple of hours to take the chill off the rooms.
Mind you, it's not been too cold yet this winter - Jan and Feb can be really nasty. I've been dreading this winter.

<b>Gas!!</b> How lucky are you mine is not connected, no metre, nothing. I bought an ex-rental house that has not been touched in 100 years. It has had a coat of paint and I have just had to rewire the house (cannot afford to get builders in on my salary.

I found a cast iron fireplace for 65 quid and fitted it for nothing and lit a fire in the grate to test if there is a good draw of air.
9K for a turbine, lordy I should not be on this forum, I think I need the pub, oh yes I cannot find a pub that serves Mild down here... I think the cold is affecting my Noggin. </rant>

Gas, I should be so Kylie Minogue (lucky).

 

[biffvernon]

Well done Jane - that's a brilliant account.

 

[Jane Smith]

Why, thank you, Mr Vernon. I exist to please.

 

[biffvernon]

Ah but

It’s a nice story but the numbers don’t add up. There is no way a 6kW wind turbine can displace £3,000 a year of heating oil without something else going on.

Lets be really generous and give the turbine a 30% activity factor – that means it generates 15.8MWh per year or an average of 43.2kWh of energy per day.

Fuel oil is around 30 pence per litre so £3,000 buys 10,000 litres - the energy density of heating oil is 38.7 MJ/L so that’ll be 387 GJ per year or 107.8MWh – lets say the combination of diesel generator and boiler are only 50% efficient on average that still leaves 53.8MWh compared to the 15.8MWh from wind. It’s worse than that though as some of that wind energy will be lost due to the wind blowing in the summer when the batteries are full, the battery charge discharge cycle will suck up at least 5-10%, the inverters and cable loss will take a few %...

I expect there is closer to 10MWh per year of energy service coming from the wind turbine compared with 50MWh from the oil system.

It may well pay back in ~7 years... but that doesn’t include the 80% energy discrepancy.

Maybe you can explain, Jane?

 

[worms]

Biff, I am not sure where you are quoting T'lad from (unless my browser is not giving me the whole picture!) but Jane does say "a fabulously windy place". I thought the commercial guys nowadays looked to generate about 70% of installed capacity for an economic windfarm? Way above T'lad's "generous" 30%. And he has not factored in the £800 in ROCs that Jane can spend on other fuels (or insulation) if/when needed.

I expect that the real answer is somewhere between the two, Jane will use her central heating oil to better effect and have background heat from electricity in a way that she couldn't do before from the old generator. The result is that she feels so much warmer. The £800 will buy her (on T'lad's figures) about 14MWh of heating and a 70% return on installed capacity will give her 36MWh giving a total of 50MWh to play with which is not far off T'lad's 53.8 MWh for the old system.