Tax on Energy Inefficient Homes?

[Ushy M]

Article below for information. I wonder how many period properties could be affected by these proposals. No cavity walls, no double glazing etc etc etc.? Forced remediation measures?

"Government is currently considering rewarding people that improve the energy efficiency performance of their home by moving up the Energy Performance Certificate rankings (Times 20 July 2010 article). It is proposed that a tax would be placed on energy inefficient homes (those rated F or G) and a rebate would be available for significant improvements.

Homes rated F and G are expected to make up less than 8% of the market. Costs for improvements to homes would range from £800 to over £9,000. Funding is available for assistance for many of these measures such as Carbon Emissions Reduction Target (CERT) or the Community Energy Savings Programme (CESP).

An EPC is needed for all properties within 28 days of the property being marketed. The EPC rates the property from A to G as to how energy efficient it is and it will recommend measures that can be undertaken to improve its rating. These measures are being considered as part of a collection of initiatives to improve the energy efficiency of existing homes.

Should you want to learn how to retrofit your homes to low carbon please see more information here http://www.sustainablehomes.co.uk/refurb_for_real.aspx"

 

[Flyfisher]

"Government is currently considering rewarding people that improve the energy efficiency performance of their home by moving up the Energy Performance Certificate rankings (Times 20 July 2010 article). It is proposed that a tax would be placed on energy inefficient homes (those rated F or G) and a rebate would be available for significant improvements.

A brilliant bit of 'Sir Humphrey-speak" - 'rewarding' energy efficient homes by taxing them less than energy inefficient ones. Yeah, right.

I wonder how government will reconcile 'encouraging' energy-efficient improvements in listed properties while legally preventing many of the recommended measures such as double-glazing?

 

[Penners]

The next time I pass a little old lady in the street, I shall "reward" her by not kicking away her walking stick.

:roll:

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Makes you spit doesn't it. More damage to listed properties. I don't care what anyone says, some of these insulation measures have still to be proved non damaging to houses . Some are probably ok in the short term.

 

[skier-hughes]

It's not only about insulation tough is it?

Our hot water used to be supplied by mainly imersion heater and secondly via the rayburn.

Having had 50 solar tubes fitted in March, with the old hot water tank removed, thus also imersion heater, we have not had to light the fire or rayburn (our new other methods of heating water) since June. Our electricitiy bill as gone from £135 per month to £85....

Now where do I get that tax rebate

 

[MdB]

Now where do I get that tax rebate

You already have received it in the form of the tax you didn't have to pay on the energy you have saved.
Taxing the energy usage is by far the best way of doing this compared with any test of the insulation of a house.

 

[skier-hughes]

excellent...

 

[Flyfisher]

Taxing the energy usage is by far the best way of doing this compared with any test of the insulation of a house.

Hear hear!

I'm getting heartily sick of all this guff about how to live our lives and, in particular, all the inconsistencies that abound.

We've previously discussed the 'requirement' to have a fan in a bathroom even though opening a window would provide an 'adequate form of ventilation', except this would seem, anecdotally, not to be acceptable to building inspectors on the basis that people might not actually open the window. So how does this square with forcing people to install hi-spec DG when people might leave the windows open? Perhaps non-opening windows will be the next requirement.

Applying the "what people might do" principle to Skier's situation, clearly he should not receive any plaudits for doing the 'right thing' because he might leave his immersion heater on all the time anyway! And leave his windows open!

The whole thing is ludicrous, but that's what happens when politics and lobbying drives things. If fossil fuel consumption is the problem then make fossil fuels a lot more expensive; people will then figure out the best way to reduce their consumption of the stuff.

I was reading today about a new (ish) international collaboration to push fusion research (which sounds rather sensible since energy is a global issue after all) and, while I realise an imminent breakthrough is unlikely, if it does eventually succeed then multilating all our historic properties in the name of energy efficiency will have been entirely in vain.

Bah!

 

[skier-hughes]

I don't leave my windows open.... but the doors are nearly always open so the dogs can wander in and out

 

[jocelyn plummer]

I leave my bathroom window open all the time, and the back door for the dog, and the bedroom window which is above the radiator, and the downstairs loo window---- oh gawd---- perhaps I should try not turning on the heating and rely on my cosy heatstore cooker to do the job, but then again I need the combi for hot water--- cold shower anyone?

 

[LadyArowana]

I leave my bathroom window open all the time, and the back door for the dog, and the bedroom window which is above the radiator, and the downstairs loo window---- oh gawd---- perhaps I should try not turning on the heating and rely on my cosy heatstore cooker to do the job, but then again I need the combi for hot water--- cold shower anyone?

The people we bought our house from had made these small "L" shaped props for the master bathroom window and they seemed to ensure just enough ventilation without making the place too cold. We have a funny little redundant window in that room ( visible outside, but doesn't exist in the room ) and ultimately I will look at having a fan in that, but for now these work perfectly well.

 

[biffvernon]

Our electricitiy bill as gone from £135 per month to £85....

And what will you do with the £50 saved? Spend it of stuff that used energy. So no gain for the environment.

The only thing that will work is taxing and/or rationing energy. Tradeable Energy Quotas (TEQs) are the best option to date: http://www.teqs.net/

Freedom to shiver in one's pretty house.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, there was a bit about this on R4's 'You And Yours' today, apparently it's called the 'rebound effect'.

So 'energy efficiency' in practice means that we don't actually use less energy but we can do more with the energy we buy. Hence the average temperatures of homes has risen over the years, for one example.

I suspect the same thing happens with cars with higher mpg - people can then afford to drive more for their more-or-less unchanged fuel budget.

And, as Biff rightly says, even if we don't turn up the thermostat and really do save money by using less energy, we just go and spend the saved money on something else, which will inevitably involve the use of energy.

Money = energy = standard of living. I almost feel sorry for the politicians that have to grapple with the problem.

 

[skier-hughes]

Our electricitiy bill as gone from £135 per month to £85....

And what will you do with the £50 saved? Spend it of stuff that used energy. So no gain for the environment.

Considering most people spend most of their money, saving a little, and everything that is bought has some energy used to create it, then we are all doomed.

How will taxing energy consumption work?
Tax goes to governement, they spend it on something which requires energy, and here starteth the circle again.

TEQ's, I've just lowered my energy purchases, so have more money to spend on other energy, so by the teq guide, I can now buy other items such as more fuel for my car or a new lawnmower, so long as I stay within my quota..... so no gain for the environment, and if I have made a real big saving and sell those teq's, no gain for the environment as someone else uses the energy.
Ok, I get the fact that there is this finite number of teq's, but the only way it appears my purchasing my solar power no appeases you is if I save the money it saves me........instead of maybe putting it into other energy saving measures, such as solar electricity........... no win it appears at the moment Biff.

 

[Penners]

what will you do with the £50 saved? Spend it of stuff that used energy.

Tried and found guilty, M'lud. Evidence? Who needs evidence.....?

 

[LadyArowana]

what will you do with the £50 saved? Spend it of stuff that used energy.

Tried and found guilty, M'lud. Evidence? Who needs evidence.....?

I just spent some money I saved on an antique cast iron umbrella/ stick stand is that bad? It was probably made around 1880? so I'm thinking that's better than buying a new one, it's prettier too. I am currently having a break from a major session with the nasty black polish. I know they are often spray painted but that seems to lose the nice detail of the casting so I am giving the other option a go first.

 

[skier-hughes]

was it delivered, did you drive to fetch it, it's probably only good if you walked and insisted the guy you bought it off only saved the money :roll:

 

[Flyfisher]

Think of the money, Milady, rather than the object itself. I'd guess that you obtained the money via some energy-using activity and spending it has helped an antique dealer sustain an energy-intensive 21st century lifestyle. It's not all about embedded energy, although that is, of course, also a consideration.

 

[LadyArowana]

I'm not going to say how I came by the money ..... :wink: you will all just have to use your overactive imaginations! It was bought at auction, so a personal sale not a dealer, although the auction house takes a bit. I hope everyone spends their cut on organic fruit and veg rather than a patio heater, but I can make no guarantees. I went to collect it using public transport and had every intention or retracing my steps using the same method ( I even took a fold up trolley, recycled bubble wrap and string ) but the thing proved too cumbersome and heavy to safely execute that plan, so I had to take a taxi. I'm not using power tools to work on it but I may have to reward myself with some slices of pizza at the end of the day. Not sure where that leaves me on the eco tally, possibly better than driving to an out of town retail park and buying a large plastic bucket but definately worse than donating the funds to something worthy and whale saving.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I suspect the same thing happens with cars with higher mpg - people can then afford to drive more for their more-or-less unchanged fuel budget.

Interesting new study on this effect from the Institute of Studies here