Taking a risk

[Juju]

My partner and I are considering buying a Grade II listed house, built in 1745 with many original features! It has heating, basic bathroom & kitchen, etc but cosmetically little has changed in over 50 years (and in some rooms I think more than 100 years!). Obviously a full structural survey will highlight any major problems, but I think we're both a bit nervous about the risk element to this sort of venture. We see it as a long term project (and is livable as it is) but we will be very short of money and have only basic DIY skills. I know lots of theory about old buildings as an avid reader of books, this forum, SPAB info, etc and done a fair amount of work to my Victorian house. I also have very strong principles about how to repair and look after old buildings.

Obviously we know with old buildings, problems occur, things go wrong with builders, etc but what's the worst that can happen? Are there horror stories of people buying an old property only to end up bankrupt, selling it, houses falling down on their occupants, etc?!
Juju

 

[biffvernon]

Houses don't often fall down and if you don't have a full structural survey then you will not have major problems highlighted. The house can continue happily for another 250 years. I know my attitude to risk is not quite the fashion of the day but anyone with a bit of common sense should be able to spot if a building is about to fall over and if it isn't then it's best to just get on with living in it. The great thing about old buildings is that they are completely repairable in a way that modern buildings may not be. A timber beam is much easier to repair than a ferro-concrete one. Lime plaster is much easier to patch than gypsum.

 

[Nemesis]

Fire, plague, and pestilence are of course hazards, as is this:

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/lightning/lightn.htm

 

[middi]

If you see the venture as a long term project, and as Biff suggested make sure the house is not about to fall down, you should have no real problems if you appreciate and enjoy old buildings.

It is hard work at times, but you can shedule it within your speed and capability and if you do most of the work yourself by buying what you need as you go along there should be no real problem.

 

[middi]

A valid point from Nemesis, then again if we are going to take worry this far we might as well all take up living in buildings like the twin towers if we think that they are safer.

 

[Sue Wilkinson]

Obviously a full structural survey will highlight any major problems, but I think we're both a bit nervous about the risk element to this sort of venture.

I don't think you should see this 'venture' as anymore risk ridden than anyother property. People get it into their heads that the things they are attracted too in an old house (wonky walls, uneven floors, apparent wear and tear, beetle holes, small windows etc) are actually dangerous to it once they own it. This is not usually the case.

Very few houses fall over, there was a case recently where a thatched cottage imploded, but that's because the twit who owned it removed load bearing walls inside to 'open up' the space and then dug deep footings off his own bat right next to the external wall to build and extention. What with the lack of support inside and the ground being moved from under its feet, it fell in! This sort of thing is highly unusual.

I go with Biff, I'm not that conventional. We didn't have a structural survey on our house. We looked at it, noted where the leans and bulges were and kept our eye on them. Several years later, money saved for anything essential, we commissioned a full survey to provide us with a jobs list, prioritised into urgent, moderate and nice to have jobs. We were very careful about the surveyor, and you should be too. Phone SPAB and ask them to let you have a list of surveyors in your area who specialise in sympathetic conservation, and you will know that the house will be in good hands. No cement and concrete will be recommended.

Then, just work at the list slowly, and learn as you go. Before I moved here my DIY skills were non-existant except for decorating. Now I earn a small living from them.

Don't be put off and don't worry. That's the best advice really. Why would something that's been here so long choose to fall over just because you buy it? Mind you, don't install a DPC or concrete floors, and if your lender tries to insist then you have to educate them. The surveyor will be able to help with that provided you have insisted on a specialist for old buildings.

Sue

 

[Lynn]

I think the biggest risk of this kind of project is to a marriage/relationship. Money issues can tear goodwill apart, and old house projects can be a continuous drain on family finances. The decision points are many also, so if you are not of one mind on priorities and particulars it can be difficult and delay decisions that need to be made. So in all the efforts to save the house be sure to save your relationship with a nice vacation from time to time or a weekend away from the dust and to-do list.

That said, I find working on these projects like a meditation. When the maddening crowd gets too close I find grounding and peace out there painting sashes and hanging storm windows. The results are very gratifying.

 

[thiambal]

I echo what Lynn says wholeheartedly about taking breaks. I can testify as to how wearing it gets when you have done nothing in your spare time for months other than work on the house.

Do take the odd weekend off (unless of course you can pay for someone to do everything - in which case well done!) More importantly do finish at a reasonable time when working at a weekend. I sit in my office during the week and get quite excited about the tasks beckoning at the weekend - but at 9pm at night when I am still clearing up I start swearing and cursing the house!

Take time to decide what is crucial, be happy to live with what you do not have time or money to do at the moment (you may just end up loving the problems).

But most importantly, go for it! (Unless of course it is obviously falling down - then don't touch it ;-)

 

[Juju]

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement! My partner and I already talked about the problems of a house project taking over our lives so we'd definitely schedule in regular breaks.

Right, now I've just got to sell my house so we can put in an offer! I hope we're successful as I'm desperate to investigate some of the really old wallpaper in the attic.... Oh yes, and I've looked the house up on English Heritage web site of listed buildings http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk and discovered the house is older than we thought - late 1600s.

 

[Penners]

what's the worst that can happen?

Probably the very worst that could happen is the nosewheel falling off a 747 as it passes above your house, and crashing through your roof while you and your wife are entertaining the Queen to tea.

However, if you're prepared to discount that possibility, and if your surveyor doesn't turn up any horrors, then relax. If you love the house, buy it and set about learning how to do all the work that it might need - not just the technical skills, but the lightness of touch that a historic building deserves. You'll have the satisfaction of adding your own skills to those who have worked on the house before you. And you'll save yourself a fortune!

I'm sure that many of us on this forum had very little - if any - experience of carpentry, plumbing, plastering, bricklaying, electrics... and so on, before we launched into our first period property renovation. I know I had absolutely zero. But believe me - once you're bitten by the bug, you're infected for life! None of it is rocket science, much can be learned from books and the rest by just rolling up your sleeves and doing it.

Good luck - do keep us posted on progress.

 

[MDE]

I think you're lucky that nothing much has been done to the house in the last 50 years. In my experience, the 1960's and 70's have a lot to answer for - destroying old buildings with concrete, cement and gypsum plaster. Read all the advice on this site about damp, cement, lime etc. Don't believe what the average surveyor or builder says about these things. Do make sure you personally assess the state of the roof timbers etc. - woodworm holes are probably old unless accompanied by sawdust, but rotting timber ends could be a problem.

 

[mark_j_k]

I remember a few years back on the news a thatched cottage that was undergoing restoration collapsed, think somebody had removed a few to many internal walls. All that was left is a pile of straw and sticks on the ground.

 

[NT]

If you have a proper survey, do a search, talk to the neighbours, and check its not been flooded before, there really is the minimum possible risk. Old buildings are not really noticeably riskier than new, despite the endless regulations to which the new ones are built.

NT