Survey on 15thC house

[pianoredwood73]

Hi everyone

We're in the process of buying a 15thC thatched house and are in two minds about whether to spend £1200 +VAT on a full structural survey. The firm is the only one I can find which is experienced in buildings of this age, member of RICS and so on. The house has a large barn conversion so is almost 2 properties, hence the huge price. I might not need to raise a mortgage on it, but if I do it will be in the order of about £20,000.

We have a lot of experience in restoring old buildings but have never had a property quite this old before. This one is in great and pretty unspoiled condition and detailed and v nosy inspection hasn't turned up anything of grave concern. I'm fairly sure a homebuyer's report is pointless so if I get any form of survey it needs to be the full works. However past surveys on my other properties have done a lot of 'can't see any problems but you might need to pull it apart and get an expert to examine it one day in the future' and I've felt it's a total waste of money. I know all the things I'm going to need to do over time and there isn't anything that's going to put me off buying this house unless it's literally about to fall down. However I don't claim to be a surveyor and although money's tight I don't want to rely on false economy. Can anyone sympathise with my gut feeling that it's money better spent on restoration or should I bite the bullet and fork out? I'd be interested to know what other people think. Thanks for wading through this, looks a bit long now I come to read it...

Sarah

 

[NT]

Classic dilemma. Qualified skilled survey might or might not pick up anything you dont know about, so in most cases nothing gained, but sometimes of value. Many surveyors without the necessary expertise claim expertise in PPs.


NT

 

[Tom]

I would *never* waste my money again on a full structural survey!! The one we had on our house told us nothing about the age of it and didn't mention anything of Death Watch Beetle (which resulted in the biggest single domestic claim against one of the biggest insurance/treatment companies!). The only thing they did mention was that we might consider getting a damp course because of rising damp!

They seem to have a get-out clause in that if they can't see/access it then they can't comment on it and, therefore, can't be held responsible in the future. Well I'm sorry, surveyors, but my eyes are as good, if not better (since it's *my* money I'm spending!), than yours!! Full structural surveys, in my opinion, are money for old rope and not worth the paper they're written on!

The next house I buy will see *me* with a ladder, a torch and a good deal of common sense and experience crawling all over it like a rash!! And if the vendors don't like it, it's not the house for me!

Just my opinion, of course.

Jaqy

 

[alice]

It's one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" problems, isn't it?

You have the time and the past experience to go over the house and form an opinion. The house looks fine to you. If you get the survey and nothing turns up, then you'll feel you wasted the money. If you get the survey and they find something you've missed, it's money well spent. In the end, the decision really rests on how comfortable you are with your abilities to judge the house.

I bought my house under unusual circumstances. Last year, while visiting my mother in the UK, I had casually looked at a house and like it a lot, but thought it overpriced. It was within a block of her place and that's where my husband and I want to retire to. After I came back to the US, the vendor went back to my mother with a drastic price reduction. My mother and I talked it over and I said I'd buy it, but only with a thorough survey as I couldn't just fly back to look it over the way I should. I don't regret that cost at all, even if nothing was found, because it gave me more information about the house and eased my mind about unpleasant surprises.

In the end, you'll have to ask yourself if spending the £1,200 will let you sleep at night or keep you awake regretting it.

alice

 

[Penners]

We have a lot of experience in restoring old buildings

In which case, ask yourself whether there is anything that a surveyor would recognise, but you wouldn't.

I didn't use a surveyor when we bought our current house. Surveyors don't have X-ray vision, and obviously can't lift fitted carpets, pull down walls, lift floorboards, and so on. So, if you're pretty experienced at the tribulations of period buildings, won't you be able to survey the house as effectively as a surveyor?

Only you know exactly how experienced/knowledgeable you are.

 

[Lime]

We have a lot of experience in restoring old buildings

In which case, ask yourself whether there is anything that a surveyor would recognise, but you wouldn't.

I didn't use a surveyor when we bought our current house. Surveyors don't have X-ray vision, and obviously can't lift fitted carpets, pull down walls, lift floorboards, and so on. So, if you're pretty experienced at the tribulations of period buildings, won't you be able to survey the house as effectively as a surveyor?

Only you know exactly how experienced/knowledgeable you are.

Yes, that is the point.
Only you know how experienced you are and what weaknesses you may have.
The general shape of the property together with any "modernisatation" will give you a good idea of it's structural condition but only a fine-toothed comb search in all the nooks and crannies will detect a hidden problem.
You need to be able to interpret whether anything found is right or wrong, fresh and new or old and dead and that is about it.
However I have known some people (including surveyors) to not recognise what to me are obvious occurences/happenings in a property and also some surveyors to make a whole big problem up which is total fantasy of their own making!
The choice is yours but if I were you I wouldn't waste my money...that is my experience of surveyors.

 

[Nemesis]

You could also hire a surveyor with conservation expertise and say that what you want isn't the full works but a look over and see if there seems to be anything major you should know about.

So many surveys say things like ' loose tiles in the bathroom, shower drips' which you are ware of and don't care about, what you need to know is will the place fall down!

 

[NT]

A verbal report can be much cheaper, but you've got no comeback. Might be an option where the full cost isnt justifiable.


NT

 

[Penners]

A verbal report can be much cheaper

Nah - a verbal report isn't worth the paper it's written on. :?

 

[Nemesis]

Pay for a survey from someoen who understnds the building type and specify what you wish to be surveyed. Accompany the surveyor if possible. Clearly if the bathroom is to be replaced it's hardly worth paying for a survey of the plumbing (some do some don't) or the decor or the electrics ditto.

Just don't ask for the full monty, and be prepared to ask informed questions.

 

[lordmulberry]

Only if it has a "Verbal Agreement Stamp" on it (obtainable from your local Post Office)- assuming you can find one.

 

[Flyfisher]

I would *never* waste my money again on a full structural survey!! The one we had on our house told us nothing about the age of it and didn't mention anything of Death Watch Beetle (which resulted in the biggest single domestic claim against one of the biggest insurance/treatment companies!).

But would you have been able to make a claim for the DWB if the survey had reported it and not been negligent by missing it?

A friend had a similar situation with dry rot that was undetected by a 'full structual survey'. It had gone from the ground floor floor and up a fitted cupboard into the first floor. He was able to claim against the surveyor's insurance company because of their negligence. So a full survey can be regarded as a form of insurance - unless they really do spot every little fault, of course - but then it is probably worth the money!

It's a bit like using a solicitor for conveyances. It's not actually a very difficult thing to do yourself, but by using a solicitor you're buying a level of professional indemnity, which can be very useful if anything goes wrong.

Why do you think building societies always require a survey before they will lend against a property? My last mortgage was for just 25% of the market value of the property, so why did the building soc need a survey to tell them they would get their money back if we defaulted and they had to sell? Professional indemnity!

 

[inwood]

If you do go for one, ask them to concentrate on any specifics that you have concerns over. If you have no concerns and have had a good nose around for a few hours (unaccompanied by the seller) without finding issues then it's probably not worth it.

I always find the questions "what work have you had done recently?" and "what else would you have done if you had the time/money?" elicit some interesting responses which might either raise concerns or allay your fears.

Don't forget that if they make any statements which you might want to rely on in future e.g. "we haven't done any structural work since living here" get your solicitor to state that in the contract (a verbal confirmation one way or another is very difficult to substantiate in court - but if it's written down.....). If you later find evidence to the contrary which gives rise to any issue you have it it writing and can pursue it in court.

 

[JohnB]

A bit modern to mention here, but I had a homebuyers report done on my 1953 bungalow when I bought it. The surveyor found damp and recommended a company who could deal with it. As I thought surveyors were supposed to be professionals and I hadn't seen all the TV programs on dodgy damp treatment then, I got the purchase price reduced and had the work done when I moved in. The previous owners had only been there about 18 months and their surveyor hadn't found damp, so they got compensation from him.

I'm now convinced there wasn't a problem, and if there was it was caused by things like the concrete path level with the damp course that the surveyor missed.

 

[Matt Green]

A friend had a similar situation with dry rot that was undetected by a 'full structual survey'. It had gone from the ground floor floor and up a fitted cupboard into the first floor.

That's fairly interesting. Idle debate in the office theorises that it should spread downwards with the flow of water. Was there a downpipe outside?


Matt.

 

[Flyfisher]

It was many years ago and I don't know all the grim details, but a key factor was the floor to ceiling cupboard in an alcove. You might be right that it actually spread from the first to the ground floor with a water leak.

Either way, the surveyor didn't spot it and their insurance company ended up paying out for some substantial repairs. I guess the survey fee was worth every penny in this instance.

 

[Nemesis]

Except - the survey fee possibly wasn't cheap, and I'm sure Matt will tell us - stop the source of water and the rot will vanish.

Not an expensive solution.

 

[Tom]

I would *never* waste my money again on a full structural survey!! The one we had on our house told us nothing about the age of it and didn't mention anything of Death Watch Beetle (which resulted in the biggest single domestic claim against one of the biggest insurance/treatment companies!).

But would you have been able to make a claim for the DWB if the survey had reported it and not been negligent by missing it?

Our claim wasn't against the company who did the survey. It was against a completely separate company who had set up the insurance against the property years before we bought it. The insurance policy was transferable to us from the previous owner.....just as well, really!!

Jaqy

 

[Pford75]

With similar negative experiences of full surveys (on a purchase which then feel through because the vendor withdrew!), we didn't have a survey on our current property. The size alone would have meant a very large bill for a reasonable level of detail...and if it were to be more superficial, as others have said, I can do this myself.

There were one or two specifics which did concern us however and which I was not in a position to assess myself.

1. The electrics - rather than have a surveyor, we had a report soley on these conducted by an NICEIC contractor...cost £220...which was money well spent

2. Some trees very close to the main building - had a local tree surgeon come round and give us an opinion on root span etc....cost £nothing

3. Boilers - 2 very old boilers....unable to assess ourselves if they needed replacing or could be expected to run and run....local boiler service company came and looked.....said they would run...but pointed out inefficiencies (non-condensing) and lack of output for the house....cost £nothing

So - I would recommend using experts for the things you need help on...doesn't have to cost a fortune

 

[Flyfisher]

Except - the survey fee possibly wasn't cheap, and I'm sure Matt will tell us - stop the source of water and the rot will vanish.

Not an expensive solution.

But the damage wouldn't vanish would it? The repairs involved complete new floor joists and boards upstairs and down, with all the associated collateral damage and disruption.

I've no doubt that the repairs were 'exaggerated' by the building company once they knew it was an insurance job, but either way an awful lot of work was done at no additional cost on the back of a survey that provided the professional indemnity. That's an important aspect of any professional service, and often overlooked.