Survey issues

[Cottage]

I was wondering if you can help. My partner and I have found a nice grade 2 listed cottage to buy. We saw some faults which we expected to deal with but our surveyor (with experience of listed buildings surveying) has found the owner has divided the property into two cottages and the dividing walls fail on the sound and fire building regulations. The current owners have put up partitions between the now two separate properties and are trying to sell both.

He has estimated work of about £50K needed on the property and saying that it should not have been put on the market until the party walls had been brought up to standard and this resolution with buildings and regulations and the conservation department could take up to 6 months to come to an agreement to sort it.

Does anyone have experience of party wall issues like this?

Time is an issue for me as I'm being financially supported by my company for the house buying until December 2007.

 

[Nemesis]

Are you saying this work has been carried out without Listed Building Consent?

If so, I don't think you will get it sorted out rapidly! And if the house has been subdivided without consent it may be that he is ordered to return it to its original state, and could end up in court.

 

[Cottage]

I don't know how long the dividing walls have been up but it has been separated for a good few years

 

[Nemesis]

Well, first stop I would contact the seller and ask to see any permissions given for the work. It may be that all is in order, and work was done with Listed Building Consent and the appropriate Building Control consents. This is something your solicitor will check anyhow, but as time is of the essence I'd start the process yourself.

If you don't get any satisfactory answers, (and don't just take verbal reassurances for an answer, ask for paperwork!) contact the local authority planning department, talk to the CO, if possible, and ask if the work was done with or without permission. There should be a record of all permissions given for the property.

Where listed buildings are concerned, certain building regulations can be waived, or it may be that the work won't meet current regulations, but met those in place at the time the work was carried out.

 

[Cottage]

Are you saying this work has been carried out without Listed Building Consent?

If so, I don't think you will get it sorted out rapidly! And if the house has been subdivided without consent it may be that he is ordered to return it to its original state, and could end up in court.

We think the walls were prior to the listing but are not sure.

Can we ask the conservation officer about it, or would we risk "grassing up" the owners? We do want to maintain good relations with the owners (they are nice!) and also need to progress things, and get a lot more information.

Do most surveys of old buildings list a lot of repairs (surveys by specialist surveyors recommended by RICS/LPOC)? We've also been recommended taking every wall back to brick. The house is well ventilated (through windows and doors).

 

[Cottage]

We have looked at all LBC applications at the council, and they show the terrace of cottages, with these two as seperate cottages.

Were old cottages built as partly communal, ever??

It's parts of the separating wall that will not meet noise and fire buidling regs.

Thanks for your replies, much appreciated.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, cottages were at times occupied by a larger number of people than we think suitable now, and at times that use may have been 'communal'. That's something you would need to research, via census returns etc.

Yes but - I don't think that my house would meet current building regs either - the point is, did the alterations meet those in place at the time they were carried out? Did they have the relevant permissions? Possibly the surveyor hasn't considered that aspect?

There is a time limit for taking action by a local authority where buildings regs is concerned, but none where no LBC has been granted.

 

[Cottage]

We've also been recommended taking every wall back to brick. The house is well ventilated (through windows and doors).

Wattle and daub/brick/stone

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Well, cottages were at times occupied by a larger number of people than we think suitable now, and at times that use may have been 'communal'. That's something you would need to research, via census returns etc.

Yes but - I don't think that my house would meet current building regs either - the point is, did the alterations meet those in place at the time they were carried out? Did they have the relevant permissions? Possibly the surveyor hasn't considered that aspect?

There is a time limit for taking action by a local authority where buildings regs is concerned, but none where no LBC has been granted.

Nemesis is right - the works only had to comply with the building regs at the time they were carried out

 

[Nemesis]

The owners will have to come up with the permissions anyhow, as your solicitor will require them. And if they haven't got them, then it is really quite a problem for you, as taking on a building without LBC's could mean you will be required to carry out any remedial works required if the local authority deems that they have been carried out without consent. That may include removal of the partitions totally... and no gurantee that permission will be given to put them back.

So ask, or ask the CO...

Why have you been told to take the walls 'back to brick'? Is there a problem with the plaster?

Sorry if this is a bit ad hoc - I'm sort of doing three things at one!

 

[Cottage]

We have a damp problem in one area due to the bedroom window not being seated properly and it has blown the plaster and saturated the walls on the south side of the building. Also, there is some fibrous boarding all around the house which is a fire hazard and the surveyor said it would be easier to strip it all out and replace with plasterboard with foil backing.

 

[Nemesis]

Why not plaster with lime?

 

[Cottage]

This was our suggestion and one we'd probably go with. Our issue will be the removal of window and peg tiles to correct the leak (over 2/3rds need to be removed due to poor workmanship).

 

[Cottage]

Why not plaster with lime?

Yes, we would prefer to plaster with lime. The alternative was recommended to protect the walls from internal moisture from cooking, heating, people living in the house etc.


Have many people done lime plastering themselves (those who aren't professional plasterers?)

Thank you

 

[Nemesis]

YES!!!!!

 

[Pford75]

This thread raises a question which I have always wondered about.

Where period properties have been owned for a long time (as is often the case), there has often been work done over a period of many years.

How is it possible for anyone to judge when the work was undertaken (and therefore, which building regs apply and also whether it was pre or post listing)?

We looked at a previous house in Lancs, before buying our current property, where the owner claimed all the work occurred before the building was listed in the early 90's. The listing itself didn't make reference to any of the parts affected and the CO wasn't much help either......turned out we decided to buy in Norfolk instead, but often wondered how we could have decided if the works were legal or not

 

[Gervase]

It's a good question and one which, sometimes, shouldn't be asked too closely. I have heard of cases where bathrooms have been added fairly recently, but - should anyone ask - they were put in before there was a requirement to put a four-inch hole through the wall for a pointless extractor fan when sash windows do the job perfectly well. :wink:

 

[Flyfisher]

In a similar vein, I've heard of electrical work still being done with the old red & black cabling as if it had been done prior to the recent regulation changes. Judging by the amount of 'old colour cable' on eBay, this seems quite popular :roll: