stripping

[cupcake]

Hi
My front door is original to the house [well very old any way] and still sits on those 'drop on' cast iron hinges.
It is completely draughty [but I 'll never get rid of it!]and has the old lock with a key that is nearly 5 inches long!
Its wide at 39" and is painted with numerous coats of various coloured paints.
On the front side is a ledge at the bottom which is in need of repair and the paintwork is in a very shabby condition.
My question is how best to remove the paint. Im worried about having the door 'dipped' as Ive heard that this can affect the strength of the door. Also there are a lot of nooks and crannies in the door which is going to make paint removal a real bind. Any suggestions?

 

[GeoffP]

I’ll probably get a bit of flak for this but I’ve had very good results in the past using a hot air gun to get rid of the bulk of the paint followed by caustic soda to finish the tricky bits.

I use a plastic pan brush to work in the caustic soda and have a variety of paint strippers ground down to match the shape of the mouldings on the doors. By mixing your own caustic soda, you can vary the strength of the application.

Just finished a massive cupboard which is about 9 ft high by 8 ft wide with probably over 100 years of thick paint and varnish with no problems at all.

Make sure that you use plastic gloves when applying the caustic (goggles are also recommended as I can vouch that it stings if you get it in your eyes) and wash off with plenty of water afterwards. I add a little vinegar to the water to neutralise.

I'm no expert but I hope this helps

Geoff

 

[Nemesis]

Does it really need to be stripped though? All those layers of historic (not to mention lead) paint - why not simply rub down lightly and recoat?

 

[cupcake]

I think I really do need to strip it. The inside surface is painted in white gloss!!! circa 1975 and has so many deep chips and scratches it would look awful just painted over.
I might go with the heat gun idea - doing the inside first to see what its like. What would be best to do with the area around the lock. The lock case stands proud of the door and is about 5" square. Will the heat damage that?
I think I'll need a joiner too to replace the ledge at the bottom of the front surface. My two boys keep standing on it like a swing when we open the front door!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would like a lovely, nicely finished entrance to the house - even if the rest of it looks like a 200 year old bombsite!

 

[Penners]

Don't have it dipped.

Apparently it is possible to find dippers who don't cause damage, but I have to say that isn't my experience. The trouble is, you don't know whether they'll damage your door or not until the job is done - which can be too late.

The doors that I've had dipped (before I learned my lesson) have always ended up with brittle, dried out wood, and are often cracked. The glue joints can also be loosened.

I would use Nitromors. Klingstrip is good if the door is hardwood, but I wouldn't use it for softwood - it can cause the surface to become fibrous.

To get into the nooks and crannies, use a proper scraping tool - there are lots of different shapes, but this is one that I find useful:

 

[Nemesis]

But take care.

Is it dangerous to keep old paintwork, which may contain lead?
Old lead-based paint is not dangerous unless it is disturbed in such a way as to release the lead into the environment, where it can be ingested, inhaled or absorbed through the skin. Special precautions must therefore be taken during redecorating work, when the old paint is likely to be rubbed down, sanded, burnt off or removed with volatile solvents. For advice on the procedures to follow, on protective clothing and equipment and on safe disposal of lead-contaminated waste, contact the Health and Safety Executive Infoline: 08701 545500, open 8.30am to 5.00pm Monday to Friday. Fax: 02920 859260, Website: http://www.hse.gov.uk. Email: hseinformationservices@natbrit.com.

 

[Micky]

Hi - we have a front door which sounds exactly like yours including draughts but which is very much part of the house and old if not original, you don't mention it but ours is ledge and brace and also hung on what look like gate hinges (the ones you hook the door over the top)....I couldn't see the point of expending all that time and energy stripping it back to be honest I am sure all the layers of paint are mainly what is holding it together! We did have the bottom ledge thingy on the outside (can't remember what this is called but makes the rain run away from door) replaced and I then just sanded it back a bit and repainted....I repainted over yellowed white gloss on the inside with satinwood (not ideal I know but I figured all the other layers underneath were not that great either) which gives a better matt finish so you don't notice imperfections so much. We also have a thick velvet curtain which you can pull across on the inside and a sausage and thats the draughts sorted! We don't use this door so luckily don't have to carry the big key around.
Micky

 

[Penners]

Drip bar

You should find a moulding like this available in softwood or hardwood in most timber specialists.

 

[cupcake]

Micky - you have just described my front door exactly. We even have a thick curtain on one of those poles that you open with the door and a sausage dog. But we DO use our door so Do have to carry the key around - its been the topic of many discussions when Ive been out!

If I get one of those drip bars from a timber yard - whats the best way to attach it - or is it best to get a joiner?
Ive yet to find a joiner who appreciates old properties like ours.

 

[Pford75]

I echo Penners comments on Klingstrip - if the door is hardwood....this is marvellous stuff and far beats any other stripping method i've tried.

 

[cupcake]

How do I find out what kind of wood it is? The bare wood in the chips looks quite light like pine.

 

[Penners]

If I get one of those drip bars from a timber yard - whats the best way to attach it - or is it best to get a joiner?

I would drill countersunk holes through from the back of the door, and use these to screw it on. Then fill the holes above the screwheads and sand flush.

 

[Penners]

How do I find out what kind of wood it is? The bare wood in the chips looks quite light like pine.

You'll need to strip a slightly bigger area, to get a better look at the wood. How old is the house and how "grand" is it? Softwood doors are more plentiful than hardwood.

 

[cupcake]

Its very old - probably late 1700s early 1800s. Not at all grand - its two cottages that were knocked together 30 years ago - our stonemason says it was built for animals [some would say they still live in it!!]

 

[Moneypit]

Does it really need to be stripped though? All those layers of historic (not to mention lead) paint - why not simply rub down lightly and recoat?

Well, I would advocate stripping if there is the possibility of recovering some fine molding detail. Not to mention that some of the historic paint is likely to be nasty new stuff that could be trapping moisture in. Get stripping and then make merry with some sweet smelling linseed oil paint.

The very first job we did when moving in to our moneypit was the faded and flaking front door. Sadly it was pre Periodproperty forum experience and after all the hard work of paint removal and some repairs I happily cocooned it in Weathershield gloss. It has looked superb for neary three years now but there are cracks in the paint at some of the joints and definite evidence of suffering beneath. A future task will be to clean it up again and go the right route.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, I was just putting the case for conservative repair...

I would certainly not rush into stripping paint totally, all that evidence of historic paint schemes which a future owner may be interested in delving into.

As Roger Hunt and Marianne Suhr say in their new and highly recommended book (Old House Handbook):

Removing paint and other finishes from historic buildings or simply cleaning surfaces can, in just a few moments, destroy the patina of age and layers of history that accumulated over hundreds of years.

In fact exterior joinery may well have many, many layers of lead, pigment and oil paint under the modern stuff, still able to protect from any cracking of the external layer.

It's a choice which has to be made at times, but not one which I would recommend as a first and only course of action, is stripping.

 

[Penners]

Cupcake - as there is some doubt about what the wood is, you could - as I suggested above - strip a little bit of the paint off the get a better look at the wood.

However, if you don't want to faff about, I should just play it safe and use Nitromors as your stripper. Then it won't matter whether it's soft- or hardwood.

It's going to be a tedious, mucky job. Be sure to wear protective gloves and goggles, plus old clothes or overalls. And if possible take the door outside the house to work on it.

You'll probably hate the job, but the finished results will be immensely satisfying and rewarding.

 

[Moo]

Perhaps, before stripping every last vestige of paint, it would be sensible to remove a chunk of it and keep somewhere safe, ready for any future investigations.
I removed all the paint from our sashes and am glad I did so because (rather like the plaster cornice upstairs) the paint was so thick that the profile of the woodwork had totally vanished. Had I realised that I was removing useful historical material I would have kept some, but that was in the dark days before PPUK opened my eyes to the Truth.