Stripping paint from timber frame windows

[Carissa]

The windows on my 1850s terrace are double glazed, and have been painted at some point with an exterior fencing type paint in a reddish brown colour. Some of the paint has now cracked and some is coming off. I started sanding the frames back on the weekend, but it took forever to sand one side of one window - I've ended up sanding it back completey as paint started coming off in some places but not others. So I've decided it's best to take all the paint off and repaint them with a linseed oil based paint.

I know a heat gun paint remover will affect the double glazing seal. Would a product like Nitromorse (sp??) be ok to use on the window frames? It's horrible stuff to work with, but I've not been able to think of any other option for removing the paint without taking up the next 3 weekends and without affecting the double glazing seal. I'm assuming chemical paint removers won't affect the seal?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Carissa]

No one able to help?

 

[skier-hughes]

Phone these
http://www.stripperspaintremovers.com/about.htm

They are very helpful and can point you in the right direction.

Graham

 

[Nemesis]

I suspect most of us have historic single glazed windows and haven't ever tried this.

It might be possible to use a stripper and keep it away from the seals? Maybe a poultice stripper such as those from Strippers will be more controllable than a liquid.

 

[stickybeak]

.

 

[Carissa]

The paint's not lead. The windows aren't very big (it's a small terrace), and they're not very old. I'd guess they're 10 years old - they are newish timber frame double glazed. But someone a few years ago (maybe 4-5?) painted over the original finish (varnish) with a reddish-brown cheap exterior paint - the type that's used on fences. It appears to be a single coat, and if you wet it, it comes off very easily in some places with wet and dry sandpaper.

I tried Nitromorse on a few places away from the glazing last night, and a thin coat, left on for 15-30sec also took away the paint.

But now I'm not sure if Nitromorse or the linseed oil and Holkam paints that I want to use to re-do the windows will affect the double glazing seal? I've called technical advice at both companies, and both suggest a trial patch on one window. I don't really want to pay for a glazier to fix any windows when the glazing seals on them are fine at the moment.

 

[Nemesis]

I recall very long posts about heat guns and lead in the past and there seemed to be no reliable evidence that they were a causes of problems with lead paint.

Sanding lead outside possibly isn't too big a deal, much of it will blow away, and presumably children, who are the most vulnerable to lead problems, won't be around. Obviously though all precautions should be taken when working with old paint.

Having said that, like thousands of others I have sanded lead based paints over many years and so far lived to tell the tale, although maybe not totally unscathed...

One thing though - don't remove all paint traces, leave something for future generations to see what was there over time. Interesting too for you to peel back and see how fashions in paint colour change (much of ours was painted pink gloss...)

 

[Nemesis]

From the DEFRA site:

If removing lead paintwork, minimise non-essential occupancy in the work area.

DO NOT USE paint removal methods that create dry dust and lead fumes.
Do not sand paper
Do not scrape
Do not blast clean


Minimise exposure to dust and debris by wearing protective clothing, gloves and a face mask fitted with a respiratory protective device whose filter conforms to EN143 P2. 3M make a whole range of face masks that comply, as do two other companies, Moldex and Sundstrom.

Paintwork should be removed with methods that don't create dust or fumes, using either solvent or caustic-based liquid paint removers, or a hot-air gun.

Use solvent or liquid strippers only in accordance with their safety instructions, and remember that solvent-free, water-based paint removers are now available - ask your DIY dealer for details.

Hot-air guns should only be used so that it will only cause softening of the paint film - do not burn the paint as this will give off fumes. The gun setting must be below 450°C.
Final removal of paint residues to give a smooth surface should only be performed by wet abrasion with a waterproofed abrasive paper.

Large flat areas of lead paint such as walls and ceilings are best treated with lining paper or wall coverings. If lead paint is found underneath wall coverings when they are removed, the restoration and safe working guidance given here for leaded paint must be followed.

DO NOT eat, drink or smoke whilst removing the paint.

 

[Nemesis]

I think linseed oil and DG seals should not make contact. Linseed degrades the seals.

 

[stickybeak]

Nemesis, it's not lead paint, the windows are only 10 years old (see carissa's post timed at 09.25)

 

[Nemesis]

I saw it after I posted what I did. It could be useful info though for someone else.

More about linseed oil paint:

http://www.greenshop.co.uk/documents/Paint/Holkhampics061207.pdf

Also:

Can I use your paints if I am having new sealed unit double-glazing installed?

Yes, please bear in mind that you will need to use Shellac Knotting Solution around the rebates of the window and on the backs of any associated beadings AFTER the initial coat(s) of Linseed Oil and, if painting is done prior to glazing, after the first 2 coats of paint. This stops the oil from coming into contact with the glazing units and their silicone seals.

Once this has been applied and is dry then the glazing can be installed using the instructions supplied by the manufacturer and the painting can be completed.

We would also recommend that Shellac be applied underneath Linseed Oil Putty to help prevent the Putty from drying too quickly and cracking.

That's from:

http://www.holkham.co.uk/linseedpaints/faqs.html#q13

 

[Carissa]

Thanks Nemesis. I had read the information you posted about linseed paints yesterday, but then phoned Holkam and they advised that their paint and linseed oil would be ok on existing double glazed units. That is, that the information on their site was only for painting new double glazed units before the glass was put in.

I'm now not sure, and more confused than ever. Perhaps I'll just look for a different paint to re-do the windows with. Maybe Osmo or Auro gloss paints?

 

[skier-hughes]

I'm not sure why you are now confused?
Holkham have said it will be fine to use the paint you want to use... Where's the confusion?

Graham

 

[Nemesis]

I read about linseed and seals on the green building forum I think. It's apparently supposed to cause premature failure. I know Biff uses linseed oil paint though - I don't think he has too many probs - but it's worth bearing in mind, and double checking with all manufacturers.

 

[skier-hughes]

From all my talks with Holkam, it appears true that lineed will deteriorate the seals, but if the seals are visible on a window in situ you have more problems than whether to paint it or not :lol:

 

[Moo]

Are seals invariably made from the same stuff?

 

[Nemesis]

No idea. The only DG we have is in roof lights, one has failed and after some research we considered that it could be because we used putty (linseed oil) rather than the sticky tape with which I understand sealed units need to be 'glued' in place.

 

[plumbers mate]

Roof lights? Should be banned - someone is suing their Landlord because they climbed out of a window to dance on the roof and fell through a skylight ..... what on earth is happening to this country :-(

 

[Nemesis]

I guarantee I won't be dancing on the roof, and the rooflight is too small to fall through!

 

[biffvernon]

Carissa, I don't think you should worry too much. When I make a double glazed window and paint it with Holkham's linseed oil paint, the glass is held by pvc foam security glazing tape but the tape, or at least its glue film, only touches the wood one side and the glass the other side. I usually run a bead of silicone along the exposed edge of the glazing tape. The tape is waterproof and the silicone just adds braces to the belt. When the glazed window is then painted the paint does not touch the glazing tape and only touches the silicone along a very thin edge unless I'm cack-handed with the paintbrush.