Stormdry brick waterproofer - any thoughts?

[jackpoint]

Any thoughts on this stuff kids?

http://www.stormdry.com

Case studies...
http://www.stormdry.com/case-studies

This was a lab test performed by Safeguard Europe to breathability of Stormdry, when applied to a standard brick material. This test shows:

A Stormdry treated wall is 90% as breathable as an untreated one. It is also 35% more breathable than the next-best tested alternative treatment, causing less complications
Stormdry can be applied to an already damp wall, which means it is not necessary to wait for weeks for a wet wall to dry out, before starting works.
Performance of Stormdry is consistent across a range of humidity levels.

http://www.stormdry.com/stormdry-test-reports


Cheers!

 

[paulb33]

Interesting. I'm rebuilding a chimneystack on an exposed corner. The brickie and structural engineer both recommended a waterproofing agent be used. I was going to decline on the grounds of breathability. This may cause me to rethink.

I guess we don't know how stable this is over time.

 

[Lime]

Any thoughts on this stuff kids?

Anything that purports to stop water penetration by its very nature must also stop water loss from the surface as well.
They claim that it lines the pores in the brick rather than blocks them.
So it is exactly like silicone fluid rather than a paint.

Can anyone explain the conundrum?
If it is accepted that it prevents water entering brick (which I doubt going on past long-term performance of silicone fluids) how does it allow water to exit the brick?

 

[paulb33]

And how 'real world' were their test conditions? I'm guessing that application is critical. Just a little too much applied.....and the pores are blocked.

 

[jackpoint]

Just noticed that they also do an additive for repointing and do mention sand:lime mix

Stormdry Repointing Additive No.1

Stormdry Repointing Additive No.1 is supplied as a concentrate that is diluted with water and used as a gauging solution for cement:sand and lime:sand repointing mixtures. It imparts water-repellency to the mortar whilst still allowing it to breathe.

http://www.stormdry.com/products/repointing-additives

 

[Lime]

I have a suspicion that what Stormdry mean by "breathe" is not what I consider to be the meaning of the word.
When I use the word breathe for brickwork or mortar I mean that it is able to evaporate internal water from its surface and allows carbon dioxide and water to travel through it.

It imparts water-repellency to the mortar whilst still allowing it to breathe.

That statement suggests that Stormdry's meaning of breathe does not apply to water but carbon dioxide.
Carbon dioxide is essential for lime mortar to harden.

 

[Flyfisher]

Even assuming that this product is entirely impermeable to water, might it not still be useful in the chimney context described by paulb33?

My thinking (well, guessing really) is that an impermeable external layer would prevent wind-blown rain entering the brickwork while the untreated inner surface of the chimney would remain fully breathable. Providing the chimney void is well-ventilated, might this not be the best of both worlds?

 

[Me!]

Can anyone explain the conundrum?
If it is accepted that it prevents water entering brick (which I doubt going on past long-term performance of silicone fluids) how does it allow water to exit the brick?

It can be done by having the correct size of pores. A hole that is much too small to let a water droplet pass in (because of the way the molecules are bonded together in a liquid) can still be easily large enough for individual water vapour molecules to pass out. This is the way that Gore-tex and other similar waterproof yet still breathable fabrics work.

I have no idea if this is how the brick version works, ... I'm just saying that it could possibly be.

 

[stuart45]

Siloxane sealers have been used on brickwork in the USA for quite a few years now, and are said to allow water vapour to pass through them. Whether it's correct I have no experience of. Sealers normally need to be redone every now and then.

 

[CliffordPope]

After experiencing several months of solid driving rain I don't much now care about breathability. I just want something that will stop water saturating bricks and traditional lime mortar and soaking through the wall in bucketfulls.

If you direct a hosepipe at one side of a two-foot wall and leave it for a few months, and find it running out on the inside in patterns clearly marking all the stones, what do you do? We're not talking molecule sizes, this is gallons

 

[Lime]

Siloxane sealers have been used on brickwork in the USA for quite a few years now, and are said to allow water vapour to pass through them. Whether it's correct I have no experience of. Sealers normally need to be redone every now and then.

Even if I were to accept that the sealers allow water as a vapour to pass through them, is that what normally happens when damp and untreated brickwork dries out?
I don't think so.
IME damp brickwork feels damp or wet on its surface and evaporation occurs directly from the surface pores of the brick/mortar into the air.
Direct evaporation of molecular water from the brickwork surface is the major drying mechanism.
If water vapour diffusion through brick/mortar occurs at all, it is a slow process and a very poor substitute mechanism for the normal surface drying process in comparison.

As a consequence I think the argument concerning diffusion of water vapour through brick is a complete distraction when considering the drying of brickwork and mortar.

 

[jackpoint]

After experiencing several months of solid driving rain I don't much now care about breathability. I just want something that will stop water saturating bricks and traditional lime mortar and soaking through the wall in bucketfulls.

This is about where we are at too :lol:

 

[paulb33]

I'm confused if a consensus has formed, or not. Should I waterproof the bricks on my chimney? My first instinct said no.

 

[elizabeth]

Hi Jackpoint, our chimney also flooded buckets of water too and that was after having our chimney repointed with lime, new lead flashing and painted with Thompson sealant, (advertised as protective against rain but breathable) . We were disappointed not to have solved it. It could be the bricks were totally saturated from the terrible weather we all had (in which case it didn't work) or it could be a problem right at the top which wasn't noticed. Either way, I hope you come to a decision soon.

 

[jackpoint]

Was speaking to a guy the other day who had a demo of a modern brick/cement wall which when saturated allowed any 'new' water to pass straight through. My brother also suffered from damp spots in his new build due to water travelling across dirty wall ties.
Another chatty fella told me about a leaking chimney which ended up being rain being blown up under the cowl creating damp and puddles on the hearth.
I don't think anything was immune this winter.

 

[elizabeth]

agree Jackpoint, even our newly lime- rendered house was saturated to the point it was raining inside too! The weather certainly had the upper-hand.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Traditional practice was to paint exposed chimneys which were causing damp problems with soft soap dissolved in hot water. I have no idea whether it had the slightest effect.

 

[Keithj]

Sounds familiar! Our lime-and-oak end wall takes on a resemblance to the Trevi fountain in heavy rain with a south wind. At the moment, I've got a tarpaulin stretched over it (that keeps the wet out!) and am waiting for our lime expert to come, remove the bottom 12 inches or so of lime render above the plates, insert lead, then put lath and lime render outside that.

The theory is that the wet can get in and out as far as the lead lining, but not right through to the inside. I think he plans to put slate between the lead and the oak of the plates to prevent the tannin eating the lead.

We don't have any problem with the bricks below the sole plate (or I don't think we do ... yet).

 

[CliffordPope]

even our newly lime- rendered house was saturated to the point it was raining inside too! The weather certainly had the upper-hand.

Exactly our experience.
The year before, we had old cement render completely removed because it was peeling off and letting in a bit of water.
We had the whole house expensively re-pointed with lime mortar in the approved way, and this past winter the water poured through, leaving puddles on the floor and ruining recently restored decoration.

When it dries out this summer (hoping!) I am going to treat all the walls with Thompsons, or possibly Storm Guard if we get good reports.
Then if that fails it's back to traditional old cement render. It's nicer than corrugated iron cladding, anyway

 

[davidbrac]

even our newly lime- rendered house was saturated to the point it was raining inside too! The weather certainly had the upper-hand.

Exactly our experience.
The year before, we had old cement render completely removed because it was peeling off and letting in a bit of water.
We had the whole house expensively re-pointed with lime mortar in the approved way, and this past winter the water poured through, leaving puddles on the floor and ruining recently restored decoration.

When it dries out this summer (hoping!) I am going to treat all the walls with Thompsons, or possibly Storm Guard if we get good reports.
Then if that fails it's back to traditional old cement render. It's nicer than corrugated iron cladding, anyway

I'm thinking the same as a local mason agrees that the sandstone around a window has become porous, so we will just try that area. Product he suggested is enviroseal which l think is stormguard with another brand name
http://www.platinumchemicals.co.uk/enviroseal-water-repellent-p-221.html