Stone gutters too shallow - anything we can do?

[WYValleyHouse]

Hi

First post here - been lurking for a few months! We (quite naively!) bought our first period property this year and it turns out there have been many ill-informed 'remedies' and 'improvements' made by previous owners, plus a bit of neglect by the immediate previous owner. So this will be the first of many posts I suspect!

We live in a Victorian (~1890) solid stone detached house. The gutters are also solid stone. They are far too shallow for the amount of rain we get, so they over flow. The shape of them means that when this happens a good deal of water makes it way underneath the stone and flows down the wall. We've now got water ingress through to our bedroom wall on the corner of the house when the worst of the overflow happens.

We have had the gutters cleaned this autumn, but our roofer is coming round to take a look to make sure there's no blockage in the downpipe (it drains out onto the street and we can see that it is flowing, but we're checking all the same). Our roofer says he suspects the issue is just that our gutters are too shallow, and from the photos he and gutter cleaning man have showed us previously, I would agree - they are very shallow!

I'm just wondering if this is an issue anyone else has tackled or is familiar with? Short of replacing the gutter system, is there anything we can do?

The cost of living crisis is biting us at the minute so major works are out of the question for us for the time being.

Thanks for your help!!

 

[Feltwell]

I think for anyone to comment constructively, this thread needs some pictures taken at roof height of the guttering. It's an unusual problem and may well require some lateral thinking.

 

[WYValleyHouse]

Thank you - I don't have any photos at the moment but I'll ask the roofer to take & send us some next time he goes up there.

 

[Cubist]

My understanding is that stone gutters would be lined and traditionally lead was used for the purpose. If present, the lead may have been eroded over time. Did your roofer determine whether there was a lining, of any kind, in place and in good condition?

 

[LadyArowana]

My understanding is that stone gutters would be lined and traditionally lead was used for the purpose. If present, the lead may have been eroded over time. Did your roofer determine whether there was a lining, of any kind, in place and in good condition?

Our Georgian townhouse has this. When we had the roof replaced they did the lead too as some of what had been there was damaged or too shallow.

 

[WYValleyHouse]

My understanding is that stone gutters would be lined and traditionally lead was used for the purpose. If present, the lead may have been eroded over time. Did your roofer determine whether there was a lining, of any kind, in place and in good condition?

There's no evidence of it ever having been lead lined - if it was all trace of it has been eroded - is that possible?
Sorry if this is a silly question, but would having it lead lined make the gutter even shallower?

 

[Cubist]

No, its highly unlikely that all the lead, had it been used, would be naturally eroded. More likely that, if it was used in the past, it was removed for good or bad reasons - lead has been popular with thieves for a long time. Other materials were also used, asphalt, bitumen and the like, to prevent water ingress through the joints and seams of the stone elements and these materials and the stone itself are, to differing extents, capable of being eroded by the elements.

Lead sheeting is supplied in various thicknesses but a minimum of 2mm to 3mm is what I would expect to be used. There would, of course, be a corresponding reduction in the available depth of the gutters but provided drainage routes are not inhibited that should not be a significant problem.

 

[Cubist]

Your quandary has captured my interest and got me digging for more information and a better understanding of what may be required to fix the problem. You do not say, so I am, assuming, that yours is 'pitched/sloping' tile covered roof. If that's correct, then the water you are seeing may be a result, not of the depth of the stone gutters, but of the failure of whatever membrane - roofing felt or whatever - that was used to guide rainwater to the gutter. Had the stone gutters been lined with lead the sheet from which it was constructed would probably begin underneath the tiles/slates and below the roofs water-proof membrane.

While trying to ferret out more information I came across this article that may be of interest.

Lead Gutters - Common Defects

 

[noj]

I like Cubist's suggestion of a lead lining reaching up underneath the roof edge.

My only other idea is that the downpipes could have been replaced with something too small to handle the volume of water? If the gutters are shallow they need to discharge pretty quickly...

 

[Feltwell]

There's no evidence of it ever having been lead lined - if it was all trace of it has been eroded - is that possible?
Sorry if this is a silly question, but would having it lead lined make the gutter even shallower?

Has the house been re-roofed? A likely guide is when you look up in the loft, is there felt or any kind of membrane under the tiles/slates, or are you looking straight at the bottom of them, nailed on to laths of timber? If you've got felt or roofing membrane, the house has been re-roofed and it's possible that what was there in the gutters or to guide water into the gutters was removed.

Anyhow - history aside, what's more to the point is what you can do now to stop the water ingress. When you get a chance send us the roofer's pictures. Have you any neighbouring houses with the same arrangement?

 

[Cubist]

Just a thought; given the access problem to inspect the gutter and roof, I was wondering if there is any external evidence that can be seen from ground level? For example, are there any hoppers or down pipes evident into which water from the gutters would empty en route to ground level? Any such may provide a clue to the nature and construction of the gutters feeding them.

 

[88v8]

Thank you - I don't have any photos at the moment but I'll ask the roofer to take & send us some next time he goes up there.

Is the house very tall? I think you should buy a ladder and take a look yourself. I would never rely on second-hand reports from a roofer.

Ivor

 

[WYValleyHouse]

Thanks for all of the advice and thought! Very much appreciated! We've yet to have the roofer round, and luckily we've been missed by rain and snow - very surprising as we are in the north!

@Cubist thank you for the link, i will have a read this weekend. Yes it is a hip roof with stone slates. There is what looks like a cast iron hopper and plastic downpipe. The hopper and downpipe are on the corner where the issue is, and it is the other side of the corner where the water spills down the wall (if that makes sense!) - so the wall where the water spills down doesn't have the hopper/downpipe attached. There didn't appear to be water coming down the wall with the hopper/downpipe.

Yes @Feltwell it looks as though it has been reroofed at some stage as there is a felt lining under the slates.

Yes @88v8 the house is very tall, neither of us have the nerve to climb such a height on a ladder. Have considered getting a scaffold tower to enable us to get up there.

We've kept our eyes peeled while travelling around the local area but have yet to see a house with the same gutter system as ours. Seems it rather unique!

@noj interesting thought about the downpipe, it is rather thin. But I think it looks as though we still have the cast iron hopper up there under the stone, so I presume the pipe was chosen to fit that hopper (or I hope!).

thanks again all!

 

[Cubist]

Its interesting that you're seeing water leaking from the opposite end of the gutter to where the hopper is located. That may imply that the hopper is blocked with rubbish or perhaps that any elbow in the pipe below the hopper is also/alternatively constrained. That would cause the water to back up along the gutter and cause it to overflow at the other end. That, along with decay/erosion of the lead gutter along its length or at points where seams were made when it was installed, would almost certainly be the root cause of the problems you are experiencing. Any chance of a couple of photos?

 

[88v8]

Yes @88v8 the house is very tall, neither of us have the nerve to climb such a height on a ladder. Have considered getting a scaffold tower to enable us to get up there.

Drone....

 

[Cubist]

Drone pilots around here tend to be chased away by double barrel toters - there was a strong rumour that a peeping tom was using one such but it proved to be an enterprising bloke selling aerial photos of peoples homes.