Staining floor boards

[vicky whitworth]

I am having new floorboards down in the bathroom (cut from old joists but in essence new boards about 7" wide) and I was wondering what to do with them. At present they are just bare, new cut wood which is slightly pinky.

Should I stain them to get a darker colour and if so, what with?
Should I wax them, and will this make them a bit darker, and if so what with?

What recommendations would you make? Many thanks, Vicky

 

[Lime]

Never stain.
It always looks a mess either directly afterwards when it has dried, months later or both.
Cleaning the surface is important before any seal is used.
Many use wax products to seal wood.
I'd avoid gloss lacquers and the like, they scratch like anything and reveal all the minor imperfections lost in a semi-matt finish.
Don't use modern water based paints or anything quick drying.

 

[shelli]

agree - dont stain them - we made that mistake with a (modern) bannister rail - looked awful.

I have used beeswax on modern new cut wood to seal - but it didn't darken it noticeably - HG (can buy at DIY shed Homebase) make a beeswax product that is brown in colour - it presumably has some stain/dye in it - I have only used the yellow one.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

I'd echo the advice about not staining - unless you are very highly skilled at the task the end result can look pretty awful. Anyway, presumably one of the attractions of your new reclaimd boards is their natural texture and colour, so why start to cover that up with a darker stain?

Your fresh boards will probably tend to darken with exposure to air and light over time, so their rather raw look will soften. What you do need in a bathroom is a finish which will give some protection from water splashes, soapy drips and the accidental spillage of shampoo / toilet cleaner etc. Here we're onto the much travelled road of 'which floor finish', and everybody has their own favourite product. At one end of the spectrum you've got the terribly wholesome natural products like linseed oil and beeswax, whilst at the other you've got all sorts of whiffy petrochemicals in tins all claiming superior qualities of durability, water resistance, ease of application etc. You pays your money and takes your chance.

Regular readers will know that in this paragraph I wax (uuuur!) lyrical about Osmo products. Their Polyx wax-oil has done well on our kitchen floor, but if you want something which gives a more 'naked' finish then their Ultra Thin Wood Wax goes on very easily and gives a matt finish without any real surface build. It will darken the wood too - you can get a preview of what this would look like by wiping a bit of white spirit onto the boards.

From unfortunate experience I'd avoid any hard varnish type coatings as they are a real pain to deal with when they start to crack up.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pford75]

Following much advice and discussion on here recently, I used a shellac finish on some boards in a room I am currently dealing with. The boards had been covered with vinyl tiles and unfortunately had to be stripped to remove the adhesive...so looked much as you describe yours.

I left the boards for a few weeks to see if they coloured after stripping (not at all because I was too busy/lazy to treat them immediately :wink: )

The shellac seems to have brought out the natural grain of the wood and perhaps it is my eyesight, but I do think there has been a slight darkening.

 

[Penners]

Vicky - you don't say what wood the floorboards are, but I assume they're softwood.

As Andrew says above, the colour of your boards will slowly darken, in some places more than others. But this only serves to enhance the beauty of the grain in the wood. The speed of darkening will depend very much on the amount of exposure to daylight (which is the catalyst for the process), and on the finish that you apply.

In my opinion, Andrew's recommendations are spot on.

 

[vicky whitworth]

Thanks for the advice. I have googled the Osmo brand and there looks like some really good options there. It's difficult to choose a colour on-line as the samples can't really give a true picture. The boards are softwood and are very new looking and quite pinky. Builder is pushing me to get on with the job and make a decision but it's too important a decision to rush. Can anyone advise why stain tends to look awful after a while? What does awful look like?
Thanks, Vicky

 

[Penners]

The problem with staining floorboards is something called "strike". Softwood boards are planed and not sanded. Planing can cause some grain disturbance in any part of the board that has short or wild grain. This, in turn, allows the stain to strike much more fiercely in these areas. The result can be a very patchy look, with areas of considerable colour variation.

Softwood (pine in particular) will also change colour with exposure to light and air (as explained above), and some areas of the wood change more than others. Staining will slow down this colour change, but it will still slowly happen.

The net result of these two effects combined can be very varied colours and patterns in your floorboards.

It must be said that this problem can be moderated by a really skilled woodfinisher, who knows what he's doing. But you won't really know whether your builder falls into that category until he's done the job... :?

 

[Lime]

Most staining comprises of a dye that enters the wood for good and a surface paint that often obliterates any grain the wood may possess.
Sometimes it looks ok after drying but after a while it looks tired.
However most people have to make the mistake once in their life and sometimes there is no telling them.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

I'd start by applying a coat of Clear Osmo Polyx wax-oil, in order to protect the new surface from marking etc. Then, when building work is completed you can either apply another coat of clear finish, or if you really want to darken the floor you could apply one of the compatible Osmo coloured products such a Wood Wax finish. The initial coat of clear finish will reduce the effect that Penners has described, allowing a more uniform colour build up. That said, I'd still steer clear of coloring softwood boards myself.

 

[Edwardia]

I've done some test patches with Screwfix wood dyes on some Edwardian pine floorboards and they seem fine to me. The floorboards had been varnished or stained a dark brown at some point way back, around the edges of the room however, so I didn't do it on bare wood. I just cleaned the surface with white spirit, left to dry a few hours then painted on the wood dye. When it was dry I painted on shellac (not sure I would recommend this for large areas of floor because of the fumes) and then used wax to get a shine. I've used Liberon (which I don't like because of the smell) and Cobra (South African). The dye just infilled the varnish scratches really.

Re different colours, I have to say that's one of the things I love about my floorboards. In high traffic areas the dark varnish has rubbed off and is just left in the grain and really looks attractive. It adds character. Don't think that a uniform colour is the only way to go, for goodness sake. Personally, I think sanded and varnished orangy pine floors are as bad as uPVC windows !

 

[Toby Newell]

Hi

Please see my piece below, it may help answer some of your questions.

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/ppuk_discovering_article_039.shtml

You do not say what the wood is. If it is pine then you can darken this down with a strong washing soda solution or a weak caustic soda solution, this will look quite natural and have quite deep penetration. Dye-based staining (with coloron type wood dye, traditionally called oil stain or now nitro stain or a water stain) is possible but will be patchy on softwood. Osmo type coloured oils are basically NOT traditional oils but rather modified varnishes with a groovy marketing soundtrack, you will need to regularly apply them as they will go patchy in a wet area but can look good and have some water resistant properties. Applying shellac and wax or just wax is fairly pointless in a bathroom unless you never get any water on the floor as both will get damaged v easily.

Personally if you want a durable low maintenance finish then I would darken with a strong soda (or weak ammonia) wash, seal in shellac (with pine staining so patchy I always prefer to apply a tinted translucent shellac seal which really adds depth, you can make your own by buying different coloured shellacs and mixing them or by adding lightfast stains to the shellac) then apply several coats of floor lacquer (looks just the same as osmo oil except water washable) Alternatively you could apply a clear or coloured oil, you would need to reapply regularly but these oil finishes are designed to be reapplied regularly are cheap and the area is presumably very small so will not take much time. Bascally if you dye the wood you will need to seal it somehow with a clear coat finish.

Toby

 

[Pford75]

then apply several coats of floor lacquer (looks just the same as osmo oil except water washable)

Is there a particular type you would recommend? I'm now at the stage of having stripped the boards, darkened with caustic soda wash, shelllac'd and wondering whether to wax....your suggestion to lacquer has confused me :wink:

Won't this go the same way as varnish eventually? ie. high traffic areas looking worn and the whole floor needing re-lacquering?

 

[Penners]

Toby

Well, hi there, Toby. Have you been absent from the forum for as long as I think you have, or have I just missed your posts?

Welcome back.

 

[Toby Newell]

Hi

Look nice does it? Sorry the soda is a chemical stain that changes the colour of the wood, the shellac seals this colour in and enhances the grain further but provides little protection. Now you will have to apply a lacquer such as a water based or solvent based. (Not traditional oil type varnish) I am afraid you would have to strip the shellac if you want to apply an osmo type oil based finish but any other finih is fine. I use a commercial 100% PU waterbased finish (3 coats matt finish) this is very water resistant and very durable and will not crack up or peel off as long as the floor isn't sopping wet all the time. Other two part cellulose finishes or moisture cured polyurethane finishes will do a similar job. All should last for many years. Otherwise you could apply more shellac and a couple of coats of a proprietry beeswax, this will "spot" white with water but can be waxed regularly and will have its own charm.

I love antiques and old wood but like my woodwork to be functional, once you have darkened with soda which acts on the tannins in the wood much as natural ageing by the sun does and sealed with shellac to enhance the grain then overcoating with a modern lacquer can still look natural and authentic rahter than anaemic and shiny and will be maintenance free. I would apply 3 or 4coats of Bonakemi Mega matt (or Blanchon Initial, Carver, Ronseal Profesional etc. water based lacquer) with a nice American Purdy synthetic brush or similar, sanding inbetwen with P240 grit or similarabrasive paper. The result should look natural and last many manny years. The best thing whatever you decide is that even if all the lacquer and shellac were to come off the "stain" is actually deep in the wood and therfore would not be so noticable if scratched.

Toby

ps Hi Penners, yes it has been that long and I have lots of nice new pictures if anyone is interested, of pair of Spanish mahogany Victorian Mahogany doors being restored, a Victorain reclaimed pine mill floor being installed and finished and several beautiful Georgian wide board pine floors being restored. I must ask if anyone would like me to do an illustrated peice on either. (Also got pictures and video of a 2500 square foot antique teak parquet floor at the V&A with several walls collapsed onto it when I went to price it, they will probably chuck it all away)

 

[Pford75]

several beautiful Georgian wide board pine floors being restored

I'd certainly be interested in pics of the above....it might help me visualise what our hall could eventually look like.....

 

[Toby Newell]

Approx 180 yr old pine board, wide and very long (some 7 or 8m) hand sanded of bitumin at great effort my myself and my colleaugue using hand held sanders and dust extractors (still very dusty) smoothed (still retaining the up and down character of the wood, you could still see the ridges where the knots were) sealed with 1 x clear shellac, then 1 x tinted translucent shellac (evening up with more coats on lighter bleached areas) then another coat of clear shellac and a good wire and wax. I think it was 3 or 4 coats of shellac and a wax. I remember showing the customer how you could buff the wax with your sock when I received two 3 inch splinters going through my foot and out the other side. He used to be an ER doctor and commented they were the best splinters he had ever seen. Apart from making him laugh he was very happy. The only way to remove bitumin is via sanding. I do not like putting anything other than shellac and beeswax onto Georgan or older boards if they are in original condition as these were. Also I wouldn't like to sand other than by hand held sanders to preserve the 3D patination, it really is worth the effort. Toby

 

[Ian Bond]

Lovely job :!: :!: :!:

That's a lot of shellacking - something I hadn't considered using on a floor until now. I was just going to wax mine.

 

[Toby Newell]

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/ppuk_discovering_article_039.shtml


Here is an excerpt from the above piece. For floors I would use pure shellac and NOT shellac sealer without any sanding additives, this will not be so pleasant to sand but will give stronger adhesion and show scratches less.

When a French polisher waxes something it is assumed that he will seal the wood first it's just how it has bbeen done, at least for the last hundred and fifty years or so. Wax is not really a finish, rather a supplemental product that you add afterwards to either smooth or clean and shine the original finish and to stop that finish from drying out and "perishing" (as sunlight ages shellac based finishes they dry out and become brittle forming thousands of tiny cracks via wood movement regular waxing slowed down this process and feeding the wood just means slowing the degredation of the finsih, no wood requires "feeding") To use wax as a finish you would have to dilute and warm the first application then apply around 10 coats over 10 weekends to build up a sheen. Unless you use a high carnuba based wax which is very hard work to buff you will not afford much protection.

Sealing


Why seal?

Because it is faster, cheaper and gives a much smoother final finish. Shellac is very un-reactive and forms a barrier between contaminants (especially on stripped work) and the final top coats therefore it is a good precaution to apply it to every project as it aids adhesion and therefore the ultimate strength of the applied finish. Unless you have used shellac sanding sealer before you will not be aware of its fantastic advantages, sealer is probably the most important material you will use and after staining will give you the greatest improvement in your work.

What is sealer?

Sealer is a mixture of fillers and lubrication additives suspended in shellac. It dries in about ten minutes and is ready to sand, although the longer you leave it the better it will sand. The fillers, usually mica or pumice powder, fill up the grain of the wood which reduce the sinking in of subsequent coats limiting the amount of "top coat" you need to apply. Lubrication additives such as stearates form a fine chalky white powder on sanding and help the paper to glide over the surface, this not only saves the paper getting clogged up but stops the abrasive grains tearing the finish which makes things even smoother.

How do you apply sealer and what would you use it on?

Apply with a good quality soft brush, polishing mop, or rag. Use a generous amount and work quickly. Be careful on vertical surfaces as it is very thin and you may get runs or spots if you are not used to using it. Do not be fooled by it's apparent lack of body, one coat of sealer which is sandable after ten minutes will sand far smoother than one coat of varnish which sands after twenty four hours.

Always use sealer to fix18 stains after they have dried. Leave stains as long as possible, preferably overnight, work swiftly and brush well in evening up along the grain direction. Some of the stain may bleed through so be careful not to go over an area too many times, confidence is the key.

I would always suggest that you seal before applying wax. One coat of sealer is equivalent to two or three coats of wax and is much cheaper and faster to apply. If you are waxing beams for example it is sometimes difficult to get the wax into all those nooks and crannies even with a small brush which can result in dry areas being left. It is much easier to coat the beam with shellac sealer getting into all those tricky places, then when you apply the wax not only will it go on nicer it will not matter if you miss a bit as none of the wood will be left looking dry.

For stained items one sealer coat is sufficient. If the wood is "hungry" i.e. soaks up a lot of finish then you can apply another coat. For items that are to be clear waxed I would apply two to three coats of sealer (only apply one coat for coloured staining waxes as you want the stain additive to "bite"). For floors you should thin the sealer with up to twenty percent meths and apply three or more coats. The only exception to this is oil finish, you should not pre seal any timber that you are going to oil as this will reduce penetration. For really intricate areas just thin the sealer with meths and apply an extra coat.

You should sand in between every coat you apply as a matter of rule, it may be tedious but if you want great results you have to put the effort in. I would use P240 or P320 for intercoat sanding.

Finishing

 

[Toby Newell]

ps Buy a number 16 Zorino polishers "mop" (brush) it will last you a lifetime, wash it in meths afterwards, point it and keep it in a plastic bag in a tin or tupplware container. I can shellac a floor two or three times as fast as I can wax it and without looking like I have run a marathon. You obviously have tried waxing anything large! Have you not seen Karate kid?

Shellacking is easy compared to waxing. Unless you like aerobic workouts AND splinters.