Stained Glass Door Security

[Svenedin]

My front door is not original and is not really in keeping with the house. It is a hardwood, solid mahogany front door. Good quality but not right.

I am lucky enough to have the original front door and it is now one of the back doors. We found this door in the garden when we moved in in 1978. It fitted where there was a rotten, cheap (not original) door and so it got used again.

This door is a typical Edwardian door; 6 glazed panels at the top with leaded coloured glass and coloured panes of glass that look a bit like the bottom of a bottle (I do not know the correct term). It is obviously a front door and has a letterbox etc. It is also exactly the right size to have been the front door.

My question relates to security and how to increase security without completely ruining the visual appeal. The old front door would look very good after some restoration and it would let more light into my hall but the leaded glass would be very easily broken. If I was to have a sheet of toughened glass put on the inside this would solve the security problem and would give secondary double glazing. The trouble with this idea is that a thief or vandal would not know it was there and might still destroy the pretty glass. On the other hand, a sheet of glass over the front would act as a deterrent but would really spoil the appearance.

I will try to post some pictures but I am away at the moment.

What do people think?

 

[Owain]

Is it like this?

I've discovered through googling that it's possible to encapsulate stained/leaded glass inside double glazing, giving a triple-glazed unit. E.g.

http://www.stainedleadedglass.co.uk/Pages/tripleglazing.aspx
http://www.ceswindows.co.uk/windows/encapsulated-glass/index.shtml

Whether your door has a deep enough rebate to support the thickness of triple glazing is another matter, but but might be possible to batten out the existing rebates on the inside to take the thicker glazing, although this would affect the originality and appearance of the door.

This site discusses some of the drawbacks; in particular, that about 1" of the design is going to be lost. It suggests secondary glazing on the outside.
http://www.morningglass.co.uk/news/2012/10/11/encapsulation-of-stained-glass

This person appears to be able to do it without cutting down the design. This may of course depend on the rebates available.
http://www.lyannemccredie.co.uk/section473758.html

The advantage to a burglar in opening the glass is if he can reach the lock from the inside. Therefore, a second high quality mortice lock, of a modern type that is deadlocked from outside so doesn't have an inside knob, and mounted below reach from the glazing, will help stop the door being kicked in and the more intelligent burglar will then try elsewhere (like round the back).

If the stained glass is all soldered and cemented up properly it's probably more secure than you think - it's the old rattly stuff that's easy to open. In this case, I presume the openings are too small to get through even if broken.

 

[Svenedin]

Owain,

Yes it is similar to that door but panelled differently, has raised mouldings and is older. The 6 panes of glass are the same except they are leaded coloured glass. I agree on the deadlock. Indeed, nobody could climb in even if they broke the glass.

Thank you for your links. I found this (and they are fairly local to me): http://colouredglasses.blogspot.co.uk/
If you scroll down the page they give an example where they have fitted laminated glass to a door in Sydenham and another one in Wandsworth. It doesn't look too bad to me but other people may think differently. It is certainly better than restoration of my glass only to have it smashed to bits. Croydon is not very safe. I would have moved away long ago but I was born there and something pig-headed about me makes me determined not to be forced out!

Stephen

 

[Owain]

Or fit the door with laminated glass, and have the stained glass on a hinged inner pane (secondary glazing style) that you can open to clean between the two.

You could use this to look at visitors before opening the door to them, if the area's a bit "edgy"

 

[Svenedin]

Here are some photographs showing the glazed area and the door from outside and inside. Clearly restoration is needed. On the outside the mouldings are missing. When we found the door in the garden it had a hardboard panel on the front. Now it has a marine ply panel but it would need to be restored before it could be used as a front door again. It was fortunate that we rescued this door from under a bush in 1978!

 

[Svenedin]

Just for completeness here is the inner front door which is still in the correct place. A much bigger door and reverse painted glass (designed to be seen from the outside) as well as coloured glass. I restored the lock when I was 16 or so and had a key cut to fit. It says "Hobbs Hart and Co Cheapside London Lever Machine Made". The oil-filled door return in the top right appears to be very old too. It still works. The door damage is big dog related (several generations).

 

[Zebra]

Hi. I have no knowledge or experience about doors to share but just wanted to say how wonderful that you still have those old doors, and with so many old or original features too. I think it will look so much better than the current front door. How wonderful too that you and the house share so much history. (Well, I don't know how much history - you said you restored the lock when you were 16, that may have been very recent, oh dear, am I digging a hole?)

 

[worms]

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works... And others, more expert than me, may well shoot me down in flames, but...

Are you sure that the house would have had two stained-glass front doors? Indeed are you sure it would have had an outer door at all? Looking at the pic of the front of the house that you posted on the floor board thread (lovely house, by the way!), I wonder if that was an open porch, with the formal front door being the one that is still in place? Even if it had an outer door originally, it may well have been an unglazed "storm door".

 

[Svenedin]

Hello Worms,

I am not sure how to quote on this forum or any forum for that matter. No spanner in the works at all. I have always suspected that the white door that you have seen is the intended front door. There are encaustic tiles in the porch and it seems likely that this open arrangement was much too draughty and cold. As it is now the house is an utter ice box and we are very lucky to get beyond 14 C internally in winter. I generally slumber on the couch under two duvets, with a german shepherd dog and a spaniel or wear many layers of clothes but it has always been this way so I am not too concerned. I think that an additional door was added within 10 years of the house being built hence it does appear later in date but not much and some of the glass is exactly the same.

Porch Encaustic Tiles

 

[LadyArowana]

I am not sure how to quote on this forum or any forum for that matter.

Just click the little box that says "quote" that is towards the right hand side of the original post and it will open a page that's the same as one you would get from clicking "post reply" the quote will appear in the box for you to edit down as required. You can also include quotes when you are in the middle of posting a reply by scrolling through the previous posts that appear at the bottom of the page in "post reply" mode and using the "quote" button there too. Looks like a lovely house.

 

[MdB]

You can also include quotes when you are in the middle of posting a reply by scrolling through the previous posts that appear at the bottom of the page in "post reply" mode and using the "quote" button there too.

For bonus points, when in reply mode, you can select the bit you want to quote using the mouse then hit the quote button. This saves you some editing and the chance of mucking up the format.

Stop showing off

You can also copy the format to quote whoever you like....

 

[Svenedin]

Just click the little box that says "quote" that is towards the right hand side of the original post and it will open a page that's the same as one you would get from clicking "post reply" the quote will appear in the box for you to edit down as required. You can also include quotes when you are in the middle of posting a reply by scrolling through the previous posts that appear at the bottom of the page in "post reply" mode and using the "quote" button there too. Looks like a lovely house.

Thank you. I think I have the hang of it and thanks for the comments about the house. Yes it is lovely but sadly not in a lovely area. It wasn't a bad area when I was growing up but successive governments and their social policies have made sure it is fairly awful now. There were once many houses like this in the vicinity but so many have been knocked down to build rabbit hutches or subdivided into flats. Not to worry! PS I am not unduly jingoistic, the picture of the house was taken when we were having an open-garden event (the garden is actually very small) and it was Jubilee Year.

 

[JoceAndChris]

It's lovely, and wonderful to have an owner who wants to put things back. I'm very glad you posted this as it gives me ideas for the house in Highgate where we have our flat. There has always been resistance to removing the security glass in the Viccy front door and restoring to former glory, but I'm glad to see there are ways to have security and pretty glass (and it doesn't matter which area of London it is, it's all edgy!)

Does anyone know a good company for getting the stained glass panels made up?

 

[lordmulberry]

I had a very large panel made by this man.

http://www.stainedglassguild.co.uk/index.htm

I was very satisfied with his work and as he's in Kingston it shouldn't be too far for you to collect or visit.

Cheers

Sorry JoceAndChris I should have checked your location. However he does use carriers for those who are too far away. The panel I had made was http://www.stainedglassguild.co.uk/art 28.htm. It was very successful. Hope this helps.