St Astier lime paint

[electricianid]

Dear PPDF,

It'll soon be time to brighten up the exterior again, the substrate is lime render which was: last lime washed around 8 years ago, has had some recent repairs to cracks and chips and is beginning to look a little tired. There is also one roughcast cement rendered gable which was lime washed at the same time with limited, but acceptable results.
I am considering using St.Astier Lime Paint (http://www.stastier.co.uk/nhl/data/limept.htm) mainly as it will only require two coats instead of the six or seven required with traditional lime wash, does the forum have any experience or opinion of this product?

Ian

 

[Flyfisher]

I’d not heard of ‘lime paint’ before but given that it seems to be made from ‘pure high calcium hydrated lime’ plus some colouring agents I’m wondering what makes it particularly different to standard limewash? Perhaps it’s the added ‘acrylics’ up to 5%?

As for traditional limewash requiring six or seven coats, that’s not my experience. Even on new render that had never been limewashed, I’ve found that good opaque coverage was possible after three coats, though I’ve used five coats over new substrate. But to ‘freshen up’ an existing limewashed wall I’ve found that two coats works well.

Also, that St Astier information mentions the possibility of different levels of coverage over different substrates, but we have some sections of ‘rubble’ walls that are a mixture of brick, chalk block and flints but standard limewash has covered it well. Yes, the different textures show though but their different colours are well and truly covered by the limewash.

Plus, all the application guidelines seem pretty much the same as for traditional limewash. I’m not knocking the lime paint but from that information I’m left wondering about its advantages, if any, over traditional limewash.

 

[electricianid]

Thanks for the comments Flyfisher.

It originally took seven coats over fresh render to achieve opacity so I agree that a freshen up would likely need less, however there are considerable areas of recent repair which amount to new render and I also failed to mention that I may be changing the colour, hence why I anticipated six or seven coats.
I suppose there is some variation in coverage between lime washes, can you share a good source of lime wash without breaching forum conditions? I previously used a product called 'Pozilime' obtained from the outlet in Sudbury.
This really boils down to economics, I have a limited budget and will not be doing the job myself so it's a trade off between paint and labour costs. I've used St Astier products many times in the past and consider them to be of good quality, not overly concerned about the <5% acrylic content.

Thanks again for the opinion.

 

[Flyfisher]

Perhaps our experience is slightly different because you're using a coloured limewash? I've only ever used natural white limewash - not particularly from choice but because that's always been the colour of our house. I imagine that colour matching coloured limewashes when just 'patching up' might be tricky? It doesn't seem to be a problem with plain white limewash - which is definitely a good thing in my book.

As for sources of limewash and lime products in general, it sounds as if we use the same supplier in Sudbury (ALC?) and I'm very happy with them and their lime products (mainly St Astier?).

I've also used Ingilby paints for limewash. They used to be based a few miles from Sudbury but I see they've recently relocated and are now very close to ALC. Here are a couple of before and after photos of our south gable I limewashed back in 2017. I used three coats of Ingilby 'Pure & Simple' limewash followed by two coats of Ingilby 'tallow bound' limewash. I sprayed the wall before applying each coat of limewash and also sprayed it each day. I left a few days between each coat. The 'before' photo was middle September and the 'after' photo was end of October. I'm not a fast worker! :wink:

 

[88v8]

Interesting page here
http://www.limestuff.co.uk/pages/user-guides/how-to-apply-limewash.html
It mentions 1% linseed oil as a possible additive, with the kicker that additives reduce breathability.

Application seems quite a palaver. Not a job to hand out to any old painter who might think it's just another paint.
Didn't know it's supposed to be gone over with a dry brush.

Avoid frost for several months, it says. Really?

If the OP's limewash has lasted seven years, especially over cement, it's exceeded normal expectations.

Ivor

 

[electricianid]

Hi 88v8,

I agree that the addition of any less permeable element to lime wash will reduce the permeability of the resulting compound but I suspect that there is a minimum permeability that must be maintained to ensure an acceptable moisture content within the wall and could be thought of as water in - water out + retained water/time. That said I don't think of 'breathability' in absolute terms and consider the limited use of additives to be reasonable. It is interesting that you mention linseed as an additive as this is one of the additives in the 'Pozilime' product which I mentioned above and what I originally used. It is likely that this contributed to the impressive performance of the lime wash, particularly over the cement render as you say.
The tradesman I am using certainly used to be any old tradesman, but I was able to correct his sinful ways by paying for him and I to attend a lime course shortly before he rendered my property in lime mortar back in 2007. He is now a lime convert and may be trusted with applying lime wash etc. (under close supervision of course ).
The recommended several months frost free caveat does seem excessive although achievable given that the job will likely commence in a couple of months.

Flyfisher,

I assume ALC is the Anglian Lime Centre? It was their lime course which I attended in 2007 which I found to be really helpful, it was taken by Bob Bennett IIRC and made for a very enjoyable time. I sourced the Pozilime lime wash from Ingilby at the recommendation of Anglia Lime Centre.
The photos are very impressive, you're probably a faster worker than I am, getting that done from mid Sep to end of Oct (assuming you meant the same year!)

Thanks again for the interest.

Ian

 

[Flyfisher]

I assume ALC is the Anglian Lime Centre? It was their lime course which I attended in 2007 which I found to be really helpful, it was taken by Bob Bennett IIRC and made for a very enjoyable time. I sourced the Pozilime lime wash from Ingilby at the recommendation of Anglia Lime Centre.
The photos are very impressive, you're probably a faster worker than I am, getting that done from mid Sep to end of Oct (assuming you meant the same year!)

Anglia Lime Company, but I think we’re talking about the same place: http://www.anglialime.com/

I’d agree with Ivor about seven years being very good for limewash, perhaps I should have used Ingilby’s Pozilime for my final coats. Maybe next time.

Yes, those photos are both in the same year. In terms of actual working hours, I may have spent more time on building and then re-arranging the scaffold towers than actually wielding the paintbrush because the accessible area near the top of the wall wasn’t that large but I couldn’t rearrange the towers until I’d completed the five coats. Even lower down, when I could build a full-width platform, each limewashing session only took a couple of hours or so. I also had to replace the completely rotted away lintel above the window. Six weeks elapsed time didn’t seem particularly fast work at the time

Incidentally, as this is a south facing wall I decided against repainting the windows in black as it suffers badly from the heat of the sun. I used Ingilby linseed paint for this as a sort of experiment to see how it fares in such a position. Early days for any conclusions though.

 

[Kasio]

I've used the at Astier lime paint in two rooms.
I do not have experience with traditional limewash, so I do not have a whole lot to compare with.

You can get the paint in either opaque or full cover. I suspect it is only the amount of powder that differs the two. It comes in a bucket with powder that you just add water and stir. Adheres well. I think they added a little amount of natural latex, but otherwise it shouæd be pure lime and natural pigments for colouring.

I wanted a worn, old-world look, so I first painted two coats of white opaque and then the final opaque yellowish color. In retrospect I guess I would have been better off using a full-cover white and then opaque wash with color on top. As the covering of the cement render is not completely.

I finished one room with up/down strokes and another with criss/cross. Different effects, like the first best.

Next time I will however look into mixing a mixture myself as I believe I can do it cheaper. But it is easy just to pop the lid, Add water, stir and paint.