Square oak peg

[vickster]

Hi all, I have just happily stumbled across this forum while looking for information on my (rented) cottage. We have lived here for over 10 years but am always finding new things that I had not seen before. Would anyone know if I could get a rough date of the building by looking at the oak pegs in the structure. Only just noticed this on an external beam and have not seen a square peg before. Does anyone have an information on this building method? For context I live in a small H plan cottage, with a basement. It was one floor until the 1930s when the first floor was added. Originally thatched (I have a great photo of this from just before the second floor added) and legend has it it used to be an ale house. The central chimney breast takes up about 30% of the overall floor plan which seems odd to me considering it is a small house. Please help

 

[Kearn]

That looks suspiciously like the head of a wrought iron bolt or nail to me… are you sure it’s oak? What are the approx dimensions?

Square oak ‘pegs’ in old frames were often brackets / hooks / supports for shelves / etc etc - functional rather than integral to the structure.

I don’t have an image to hand of our place, well, I do, but my photo organisation of this project has gone downhill lately! We have a number of square pegs, some functionally unknown, some were for holding the rack and stack shelves in our cheese room. The two images below show the same principle, from other houses in the village. Although our legs went straight into the posts of the building rather than standalone rack.

Where is this and what’s the wider view look like. What’s on the other side of the timber?

 

[Cubist]

A magnet will confirm but I agree with @Kearn that's an iron nail, Not uncommon to find in old timber frame structures but usually associated with fittings or accessories such as hinges and fire brackets and the like. A few photos of the cottage might help with guesstimates of age.

 

[CliffordPope]

I've always understood that wooden pegs were not traditionally round. We have oak pegs in our cottage and they are square at one end, but gradually taper off into octagonal and then are roughly round at the far end. They were hammered into round holes until they lock solid, with just the square end showing proud of the timber. That way they lock in position insted of working loose over time as the building creaks.

The expression "square peg in a round hole" originally meant the opposite of a missfit - it meant someone so well embedded in his position that he had moulded himself and/or the position he occupied as to be a perfect fit.

 

[Cubist]

I've always understood that wooden pegs were not traditionally round.

That's a something of a misconception because it's both true and false.

The pegs used to lock timber frames together were typically produced on site during construction by the framers. A plank, usually cut on site using a saw-pit, would then be used to produce short boards of the length needed for the pegs. These boards would then be split into roughly square profile work-pieces vital for the next and final production steps. The square profile would then be used to firmly grip each work-piece in a simple foot operated vice while a draw-knife was used by the operator to shape the shaft of the peg to a rough and tapering round. The square profile shoulder of the peg would then act as an almost sacrificial element during construction as the pegs were driven into the joints and these would often be cut or broken off. The basic reason for all this was simple economy - it was far easier to bore a round hole than a square one through heavy timbers.

 

[Kearn]

Bit different but similar take here… !

Pegs were as said, whittled on site and used quickly. They were as round as could be. Don’t want any rain driving through peg holes.

Also, they were tapered and were left proud, so that as the next few seasons progressed after construction, they could continue to be hammered in to ensure a tight fit once the green oak had finally finished drying out and shrinking. It would be a few years before a green oak stabilised.

 

[CliffordPope]

Here are pictures of pegs up in our attic. (Largely disused - please excuse conwebs!)
I have in the past seen a few of these when lose, and mostly exhibit the tapering profile square to octagonal to roughly round, but now all hammered back in.

 

[Cubist]

Those pegs of yours Clifford are highly unusual. Normally, and I would say as definitely an absolute rule, the pegs would be hammered in from the outdoors side of the frame to maximise the seal achieved by the taper as it's driven into place. The only time I've ever seen a square section on an inner face it was associated with a repair after the tenon blade had failed. These look to me more like replacement pegs driven in from indoors a long time after the house was built. Is the exterior rendered by any chance?

 

[CliffordPope]

They are all entirely indoors, up in the roof structure at the apex of the principal rafters, or securing the purlins and their spacers to the principal rafters. The rafters are in pairs, opposite halves of tree trunks, half cut away at the apex to form a simple joint and held together by a pair of planed-off pegs. The cottage is built of stone clearly dug up nearby, mortared with what looks like mud.
It all seems very primitive, perhaps understandably as supposedly built in a single night (Ty Unnos).

The roof of the house itself is of a similar construction to the cottage, but is only 19th century whereas the cottage could be any age pre 1780 (oldest record I have found). The principal rafters are pinned together using 2 iron bolts not pegs. The rafters have been sawn of course not split.

 

[vickster]

That looks suspiciously like the head of a wrought iron bolt or nail to me… are you sure it’s oak? What are the approx dimensions?

Square oak ‘pegs’ in old frames were often brackets / hooks / supports for shelves / etc etc - functional rather than integral to the structure.

I don’t have an image to hand of our place, well, I do, but my photo organisation of this project has gone downhill lately! We have a number of square pegs, some functionally unknown, some were for holding the rack and stack shelves in our cheese room. The two images below show the same principle, from other houses in the village. Although our legs went straight into the posts of the building rather than standalone rack.

Where is this and what’s the wider view look like. What’s on the other side of the timber?

View attachment 15826

View attachment 15827

Hey, thank you for responding, yes you are totally right, just used a magnet and it's iron!! I have added a pic to show you where it is, it's the outside wall, but the front has been clad in brick at some time so is not visible from the outside. Have also added the earliest photo I have of the cottage. It is not thatched anymore, has been given a first floor and now has dormer windows in.

That looks suspiciously like the head of a wrought iron bolt or nail to me… are you sure it’s oak? What are the approx dimensions?

Square oak ‘pegs’ in old frames were often brackets / hooks / supports for shelves / etc etc - functional rather than integral to the structure.

I don’t have an image to hand of our place, well, I do, but my photo organisation of this project has gone downhill lately! We have a number of square pegs, some functionally unknown, some were for holding the rack and stack shelves in our cheese room. The two images below show the same principle, from other houses in the village. Although our legs went straight into the posts of the building rather than standalone rack.

Where is this and what’s the wider view look like. What’s on the other side of the timber?

View attachment 15826

View attachment 15827

Hey, thank you for responding, I used a magnet and can confirm it's iron!!! It's on an outsider wall to the front, but the front has been clad in brick at some point so not visible from outside. It's just to the left of the front door if you look on the house pic and has the stairs going on. As mentioned before, originally it was thatched with no first floor, no first floor in, tiled roof and dormer windows

 

[vickster]

A magnet will confirm but I agree with @Kearn that's an iron nail, Not uncommon to find in old timber frame structures but usually associated with fittings or accessories such as hinges and fire brackets and the like. A few photos of the cottage might help with guesstimates of age.

Yes, can confirm it's an iron nail have attached pic of cottage

 

[Cubist]

They are all entirely indoors, up in the roof structure at the apex of the principal rafters, or securing the purlins and their spacers to the principal rafters. The rafters are in pairs, opposite halves of tree trunks, half cut away at the apex to form a simple joint and held together by a pair of planed-off pegs. The cottage is built of stone clearly dug up nearby, mortared with what looks like mud.
It all seems very primitive, perhaps understandably as supposedly built in a single night (Ty Unnos).

The roof of the house itself is of a similar construction to the cottage, but is only 19th century whereas the cottage could be any age pre 1780 (oldest record I have found). The principal rafters are pinned together using 2 iron bolts not pegs. The rafters have been sawn of course not split.

Well that place of yours Clifford gets more than just a Wow from me. Cruck timber frame roof, which explains the peg orientations, immediate vicinity stone used in the wall construction bonded with an undoubtedly earth based mortar and probably rendered with the same material AND the reputed Ty Unnos pedigree - fascinating, genuinely fascinating.

Thank you for sharing.

@vickster Thanks for the photos. I'm unsure which of those cottages is yours and both could conceivably date back as far as the 16C, and earlier perhaps. To my eye, at least, there are no clues evident to suggest a particular period. Maybe one of the other contributors here can come up with something plausible?

 

[vickster]

Well that place of yours Clifford gets more than just a Wow from me. Cruck timber frame roof, which explains the peg orientations, immediate vicinity stone used in the wall construction bonded with an undoubtedly earth based mortar and probably rendered with the same material AND the reputed Ty Unnos pedigree - fascinating, genuinely fascinating.

Thank you for sharing.

@vickster Thanks for the photos. I'm unsure which of those cottages is yours and both could conceivably date back as far as the 16C, and earlier perhaps. To my eye, at least, there are no clues evident to suggest a particular period. Maybe one of the other contributors here can come up with something plausible?

Hey, mine is the smaller one on the left

 

[Cubist]

I had a nagging feeling that I'd overlooked something so went back to re-read your original post. Sure enough I had been diverted to the 'square peg' issue and had overlooked some important questions.

Would anyone know if I could get a rough date of the building by looking at the oak pegs in the structure

The short answer is no. The pegs in timber frame structures take a lot of abuse both through rain penetration through the external end-grain causing them to rot and blokes like me that will occasionally wander around whacking them with a mallet to make sure they are tight in the mortice and tenon joint and to prevent water ingress along their sides. As a consequence many of the pegs may have been replaced during the centuries. Besides carbon dating then the only real clues would be associated with how they may have been cut - hewn/whittled/turned - when first used.

The central chimney breast takes up about 30% of the overall floor plan

That may seem a large area of the floor but there are several possible reasons for this. In some old structures the original fireplace opening was large enough to allow the fire itself, cooking aids in terms of brackets and dogs and sometimes also space for seating of up to two people next to the fire. If there is any truth to the suggestion this building may have been an ale-house at some time that too could provide a rationale for its dimensions. Again, a photograph of the existing fireplace/chimney breast may be helpful.

 

[philpjuk100]

A peg and a latch?

 

[vickster]

I had a nagging feeling that I'd overlooked something so went back to re-read your original post. Sure enough I had been diverted to the 'square peg' issue and had overlooked some important questions.


The short answer is no. The pegs in timber frame structures take a lot of abuse both through rain penetration through the external end-grain causing them to rot and blokes like me that will occasionally wander around whacking them with a mallet to make sure they are tight in the mortice and tenon joint and to prevent water ingress along their sides. As a consequence many of the pegs may have been replaced during the centuries. Besides carbon dating then the only real clues would be associated with how they may have been cut - hewn/whittled/turned - when first used.

That may seem a large area of the floor but there are several possible reasons for this. In some old structures the original fireplace opening was large enough to allow the fire itself, cooking aids in terms of brackets and dogs and sometimes also space for seating of up to two people next to the fire. If there is any truth to the suggestion this building may have been an ale-house at some time that too could provide a rationale for its dimensions. Again, a photograph of the existing fireplace/chimney breast may be helpful.

Thank you, I have been having a look and I think that there might have been a central hearth that heated both rooms. The photo shows the width of the chimney breast when you go in the front door and you can see the mantle beams? For each side

 

[Kearn]

Thank you, I have been having a look and I think that there might have been a central hearth that heated both rooms. The photo shows the width of the chimney breast when you go in the front door and you can see the mantle beams? For each side

View attachment 15880

that would be a baffle entry layout, central stack for both rooms, back to back openings.

the 30% footprint, fires were bonfires back then, tand boring 24/7 - the mass of brick, also rising though the building was a wonderful heat store to keep everything warm.

our inserted stack from the 1600s is central, measures 2x3m and doesn't reduce in footprint all the way to the ridge line at the third story. It's a real pain frankly in terms of the way it divides the building, but it would have generated an immense amount of heat back in the day.