Specifications and Work programmes

[L1zzy]

Having paid nearly £1500 so far for an architect to 'get my building project to the stage where a builder can quote' I naively assumed I was there. Although we have acehived PP and LBC and Buildings regs approval ...sadly I'm being told there is a frutehr stage before I can invite tenders from Builders.

Since inviting an Historic Building Consultant (HBC) round (as suggested by my architect) to look at some other repairs/restoration I am hoping to do this year he suggested he also took a look at my Building plans and proposed a.) some alterations (which in fact are very sensible ie cut the 'prettys' and stick to the 'sensibles') and b.) that I needed to prepare a Specification or Schedule before builders can quote. So my questions to PPUK friends are:
1. Does anyone have a draft format for such a Specification - something that will guide my thinking (i've looked on the RIBA website but can't find anything) To save money I thought I'd prepare a draft that the HBC could then tweak and correct.(hopefully less expensive than him doing the whole thing from scratch.
2. What sort of detail do I need to go into to get builders to tender.
3. How do I find out specifications for things such as insulation, Window frames ,the Iron beam that is to be made to support the roof.

I'm feeling rather like I'm being 'played' by both the Architect and HBC and I'm not in control. Basically being ignorant of building matters thsi being my first experience of it I am feeling like I'm just writing cheques and not actually yet at a point where I even know ball park what my project is likely to cost.

Does this sound familiar to anyone else??

 

[Moo]

We've only used a professional (HBC) once - to draw up specifications for tender** that were then used by the chosen builders on the job. It was well worth while, because the builder had proper drawings to work from, and instructions written in the sort of language he understood.
Prior to that we'd worked with a tried and trusted builder on a 'suck-it-and-see' basis, but then we were all on a voyage of exploration in an old house where we never knew quite what would turn up from day to day. But in that case the builder sub-contracted the electrics and plumbing and he gave them a pretty tight spec as a basis for the work and, of course, the pricing.

** a pretty straightforward job that entailed stripping the roof, splicing in large chunks of oak beam, and then re-doing the roof properly to current conservation/insulation standards.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Your architect ought to be drawing up the specification and schedule, if that's what you agreed with him when you employed him. You should have clear, written, terms of engagement (if he's a genuine architect and not just someone who advertises "architectural services").

Even if this wasn't part of the original deal, I would suggest that your architect would be best placed to do this, and to administer the contract during construction.

One thing that puzzles me is that he should also be able to give you at least a "ball park" figure for costs (allow minimum 150% variation to avoid disappointment / sharp intake of breath when the final bill comes in), though it's possible he's reluctant to do so if he thinks you might hold him to it.

You might find this useful if you want to do it all yourself:

http://www.thenbs.com/products/nbsDomesticSpecification/index.asp

 

[Penners]

I suppose a schedule of materials is something that might possibly be required, if you're carrying out really major works, in order that the work can be accurately costed, and in order to give the builder guidance.

But frankly I think it's probably an expensive luxury (unless I'm missing something particular about the work you're having done). I have no idea what your plans entail, but if you're doing a series of repairs, renovations and so on, I reckon any decent builder should be able to give you a guidance costing on the materials you'll need, as well as on the cost of his own time. And if you're getting several quotes, then you and - as Gareth says - your architect ought to be able to decide whether the quotes look realistic or not.

 

[biffvernon]

Just on the very narrow issue of windows, sometimes I've had specs from architects who have sent standard drawings for me to follow. Invariably I've said that I wouldn't do windows like that, and invariably they've replied with a 'Oh that's fine - that's just the standard drawing, I don't know anything about windows - you do your thing.' Funny things, specs.

 

[Penners]

And it sounds as though more architects should be wearing them.

 

[Flyfisher]

Specifications can be difficult because the level of detail can be so wide. For example, a re-wiring spec could simply state how many sockets in each room or could include scale drawings showing precise locations. For quotation purposes the electrician could easily work with the 'number per room' spec but at some stage will need to know where to put them. However, it's a lot cheaper to draw a mark on the walls than pay an architect for a scale drawing for each location. I suspect a lot depends on how 'hands-on' you are able to be; if you're going on a world cruise and expect it all finished on your return then you'd better have very detailed specifications and drawings, but if you'll be on hand every day then 'trivial' things like socket placements can be decided ('specified') as work progresses.

As for insulation and steel beams, that's a rather different matter as such things will be subject to legal regulations, not to mention structural safety, so specifications in these respects do need to be adequate to ensure compliance.

One good method of determining the adequacy of a specification is to ask builders to quote against it. They'll soon tell you if the information is not adequate (although not necessarily that it's correct).

 

[Penners]

it's a lot cheaper to draw a mark on the walls than pay an architect for a scale drawing for each location.

Quite right. But it's also a good idea to try and be around while the work is going on, because your mark on the wall will inevitably fall on the only place in the room that cannot possibly be reached by the wiring, due to a chimney stack/drainpipe/heating pipes/steel stanchion... delete as appropriate.

The above is (surpisingly) not intended to be flippant. It really can make any period building job quicker and cheaper if you're available to answer the inevitable tradesmen's questions that can occur on a daily basis, as unforeseen snags and problems crop up.

 

[Stephen]

A Schedule is a document setting out the works that need to be done. It is in effect something that tells the builder what to do. This can be set out on a room-by-room or element-by-element basis or even by trades. Generally it is best to follow a logical sequence. For example
Roof Coverings:
Strip existing tiles and set aside for re-use. Remove battens and de-nail rafters.
etc, etc.

You get the idea - I hope.

Dividce it into sections that seem logical:
Preliminaries (storage, health and safety, general stuff)
Scaffold/Support
Demolitions (if any)
Roofs
Walls

etc, etc

The Specification is a different document that sets out what marterials to use and there are some standard ones around (e.g. NBS), but for conservation work it is often necessary to create bespoke Specs.

For some works (small scale) a Spec is not perhaps essential as the information could be in the Schedule or on drawings.

I hope the above brief guide is of some help.

You could do it yourself, but if you do not know too much about building works it may not be sensible to do it.

The important thing with tendering is that the same information is given to all builders and it should be sufficient for them to understand what is to be done. If you find them coming back with lots of questions or their tenders have to many assumptions or Provisional Sums, etc then you have not got enough detail in the documentation. By the way Provisional Sums are unavoidable where it is difficult to assess precisely what will be needed in advance.

I suggest you have a heart to heart with the Architect and see what can be worked out. Point out (gently) the failings so far and how you want things changed and ask him/her to then prepare the documentation for tender (drawings, Spec, Sch and a tender form including a 'Collections' page where the individual amounts are totalled). I should mention that you must ask builders to price each item so that if you change things at a later date (during the work) you know how much to omit for the removed item, etc.

The above is a brief guide and unless you know something about building and the processes involved I would suggest you get someone professional to do this for you.

Stephen

 

[L1zzy]

Thankyou all so much for the detailed views and guidance its really helped - I knew you'd all come up trumps for me. I am inexperienced and so very dependent on sound guidance .I can tell from all your posts what I need to do now . I've realised I haven't been specific enough in the past about my expectations of the Arcitect namely to get the project to the point of Tender and I need to take more control of whats happening.I'm now considering arranging to go and meet with the Architect to have a where do we go from here conversation,raise my concerns about whats happened so far and try to find some common ground in order to move forward ,although the Historic Building Consultant is great and I do find him more proactive.

I should have mentioned before the Building project is to demolish an existing lean to Kitchen and Study with asphalt roof and (on the same footprint) to rebuild as one Kitchen /Dining room with a Slate roof. My budget is 20k with a 25% contingency and the footprint of the build is 28sqm - to my thinking I should be able to acheive the project for this price but ...after nearly 18mths plannning as I say I feel no nearer knowing ( although the Architect was given this figure to work to. )

Question for anyone good with Wood (BIFF!) - I can't afford Oak for the windows, French Doors and exterior Wavey edged wood cladding but I am determined to use a wood that will turn Silver grey when exposed to weather and be as hardy as possible - any suggestions - is Larch expensive?

 

[skier-hughes]

Question for anyone good with Wood (BIFF!) - I can't afford Oak for the windows, French Doors and exterior Wavey edged wood cladding but I am determined to use a wood that will turn Silver grey when exposed to weather and be as hardy as possible - any suggestions - is Larch expensive?

In my experience with costing wood, good quality other types can be just as expensive and even more than Oak.

 

[middi]

Larch is about as cheap as you can get for exterior clading, if pressure treated and left to it's own devices will go silvery grey but life expectancy is not as long as when also painted on a regular basis. ( well looked after will last 60years and more)

The more durable woods such as western red cedar or oak ( these do not need any treatment at all) will naturally assume that silvery grey colour but are three times more expensive. It would be more appropriate to use green oak if you decide to go the expensive way this is the cheapest and the more durable of the expensive woods. (elm was very popular but not easily available or cheap).

If you use green oak, shakes ( cracks or splits) may appear as it seasons during the first couple of years, if you use seasoned oak this is likely to be more expensive.

 

[AMc]

1. In addition to getting full plans and building control approval I paid about 3 days of my RICS person's time to draw up the Specification at around £60 an hour - about the same as the plans. It's essentially a list of exactly what needs to be done. Mine was very useful in the tender process and while it's well written there are some holes which have caused problems and would have pushed up the cost if I'd gone with a main contractor. There was no mention of external rain or foul drains which has proven to be a problem.

2. The more detail you go into the easier it will be for the builders to quote which in turn makes it more probable they will. If you're vague about what you want then it opens up the potential for problems esp. if you are working on a fixed price contract. If you haven't worked out what windows you want then how is a builder supposed to commit to a price and timescale to fit them. If you have things your committed to - like lime mortar and plaster, linseed oil paint etc. then you will need to say so upfront. Provide as much detail about the products as you can so they know what they're dealing with. Some companies will be looking at using a traditional approach for a traditional building but if they've quoted on the basis of concrete blockwork, dot and dab plasterboard and dulux then the price will be very wrong and you will end up footing the bill in the end.
3. Insulation to Part L1B of the 2006 building regulations should be easy for any builder to work out but if you want sheepswool etc. then you will need to specify it and work out how much you need to meet the regulations and tell them how you want it done. Likewise the minimum spec for the windows can be taken as read from the regulations but if you are doing anything unusual (like wanting Oak ) then you will need to be specific about materials and design. The beam will almost certainly need some calculations from a structural engineer. If you have these in hand then it makes the job easier for the builder and allows you to work through the potential problems. My engineer cost about £60 an hour and worked out all the calculations for putting beams in place to replace a redundant chimney stack and a section of wall, the design and timber for my vinery and how we dealt with the well we found digging out the floors. Expensive but very necessary and if you don't pay for one then your builder will probably employ one then pass on the cost+ markup to you.

I know it's hard having spent a lot of money to pay out more for even more paperwork without seeming to get going but if your plans aren't detailed before they start then the job will take longer and will cost more. The more advanced planning you can do then less likely you are to get hold ups on site and the more likely you are to get what you really want.

I ended up going for a self build approach because all the tenders we got were way above the budget we'd set and shared with the person drawing up the plans. Having the job broken down bit by bit meant I was able to price it with subcontractors and work out how and where we needed to save money - not least 15% for someone else to oversee the project as we'd originally intended .

I would pick up a copy of Homebuilding and Renovating and take a look at the build cost calculator (other magazines may do similar things) and other peoples experience. I think your 20K for 28m2 is probably a bit low esp. as kitchens are expensive rooms - I was told to work on £1200 per m2 but prices are regional.

Best of luck

 

[MdB]

I did my own plans and work schedule. Looking back at it, I think I was very lucky in getting a builder who knew a lot more than I did and was able to sensibly fill in some of the holes I had in my ideas. If I was to go about it again, there would be a lot more detail than was in it originally so there would have been less chance of cock-ups. We were lucky with our builder and my inexperience and ended up with a job we are very happy with. It could easily have gone the other way and a good plan / schedule is one way of helping stop this.

 

[L1zzy]

Thanks all - I will now print off your kind responses and read and digest and then make a decision as to my next move. Much appreciated good guidance folks.

 

[Craig]

Done this twice recently.

Architects don't necessarily know much about what stuff costs to build, or how to write a spec so worth asking them about their experience. Surveyors can also write specs.

1st time - architect did the spec, along with plans. We had paid for a measured survey of the house up front so had CAD drawings for everything, sections, etc. Very handy. Worked OK but hard to get the level of detail that we wanted, etc.

2nd time - we bought NBS software. Quite a lot of fun and very useful once you get the hang of how it works (bit pricey though cheaper than hiring the architect). Architect checked it and did the plans.

A detailed spec broken down into some kind of logical order (by room, or by trade, etc) is a huge advantage. As pointed out above, you are much more likely to get a decent quote, broken down by element, etc. The builder used it to plan their works and to give to subcontractors, along with decoration schedules, bathroom fixture schedules, etc. We even gave the spec to a QS to get a price to check our contract amount.

However, the builder probably relies more heavily on the plans on site, so detailed drawings are the best thing of all.

I guess overall, no reason not to write it yourself but its easy to miss stuff and then it works out expensive at the other end. Happy to send you a copy of what we did as an example.