Sorry - another sash window question

[kaz]

Hello… this is my first post although I’ve been a regular ‘reader’ for some time now.

Recently I had a full building survey done which generated a rather scary list of ‘to do’ items. I confess to being completely out of my depth with my home’s maintenance / improvement jobs, but am trying to tackle things by referring to the inspection report’s advisory notes.

It was fairly obvious that the sash windows needed some attention and I currently have a firm in to do the necessary repairs. I was so shocked to see the extent of decayed wood (this is probably due to my lack of experience with period properties). Anyway, my question is… has anyone used a product called ‘dry fix / dry flex’ (which is currently being applied to my damaged window frames)?

When the workmen left on Friday night I took some photos of progress so far. If it helps any, I could have a go at posting them.

Many thanks

Kaz

 

[Moo]

I've just had a google, and it's called Dryflex. http://www.vtctpe.com/en/products_dryflex.html

 

[kaz]

Thank you for the link Moo... when I was quoted for the repair work, the guy said that he would be using this product and gave me a link to some case studies where it had been used successfully on period properties. A few years back, some small repairs to the frames were made, but haven't lasted .

I'm going to have a bash at posting the photos which show where they have removed some of the paintwork as prep... then a scary shot of the poor condition of frame, followed by this yellow stuff they've applied:

As I said before... I feel out of my depth :?

 

[Moo]

I agree - some of the pictures really do have the Yuk factor.
But not all of them do, and it may well be possible for new pieces of timber to be spliced in. This isn't an expert opinion, by the way - it's just that there was some rot in some of our sashes (a bit like your middle picture), and our carpenter simply cut it out and replaced it. When I asked him how he'd managed to match the mouldings so accurately he said he'd done it by hand "which is how the people who made them did it, probably". He seemed to think it was no big deal, but I was most impressed.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Hello, Kaz, and welcome to the forum.

Lovely looking house! And it has managed to hang on to some original features, like the windows. Well done for going down the repair rather than replacement route - far too many people look at problems like yours and think "replace with new plastic ones".

Don't be too worried by your survey list. Some of the things may well need attention in the fullness of time, but the house seems to be standing up quite well at the moment. The key thing is to read and research, and look with your own eyes, and get lots of opinions from different people, and challenge "experts" who don't seem to make sense or who have a product to sell, and then go away and think about it before committing time and money. Oh, and tell us all about it on PPUK, of course. More good sense talked here than I've ever heard from most of the building professionals I've dealt with. (Apologies to all those reading who are building professionals of the utmost integrity)

Your windows certainly need a bit of work, but be assured that I have seen many in that condition and they can be made good as new again, ready for another hundred years of service. One of the joys of old wooden windows is their simple construction and repairability; with a good maintenance regime and occasional overhauls they can be made to last indefinitely.
However, yours have clearly been let go a bit, and I have to be honest and say that the repair work with that plastic resin is not how I would tackle the job. Essentially where wood has rotten it needs to be cut back to sound timber and new wood jointed in. In the case of some of your sashes where much of the bottom rails have gone I'd probably start from scratch and make a whole new sash (sliding section) as an exact replica of the original, and using the original glass if at all possible. This is not particularly difficult work for any good joinery company, and should work out cheaper than paying a skilled craftsman to fiddle about splicing new wood onto the remains of the existing structure. The fixed frames probably need the sills replacing, but you'll likely find that the rest of the structure is in pretty fair condition - this is where sensible use of hardeners and fillers can save original material.
But you've started your repair works now, and the finished windows may well perform well for a few years. I'd finish off what has been started, but start talking to local joiners who you could use in future for more long-term repair work. Maybe just do one window at a time over a number of years - you'll also become more confident about tackling some of the work yourself which can save a lot of money.
Let us know how you get on.

 

[Ian Bond]

I agree with Andrew's comments.

Great windows, and fortunate that they have you looking after them. A lot of perfectly repairable windows end up in the skip.

Some repairs methods shown here, just so you know what can be done when you are talking to joiners.

http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/caring-for-your-sash-case.pdf

 

[kaz]

Thank you for that excellent link Ian... and thanks to all for the very helpful replies. I am trying hard to understand how the house behaves, so all information is much appreciated.

Looks like I've gone about addressing the window problems 'all wrong', which doesn't surprise me :roll:... but I'm learning! Thankfully the rear windows are still in good nick . I'm trying to develop a 5 year improvement plan based on the building survey report. Btw... I was prompted to have a survey because my son scared the living daylights out of me by saying he was convinced that his bedroom floor was sloping more than usual :shock:. My imagination started to run overtime and by the morning I was sure that the house was about to collapse (hmmm... I still have those thoughts occasionally!).

Thank you again... Kaz

 

[Ian Bond]

I've made plastic repairs to minor areas of rot, where the strength of joints was not affected. They're fine several years later and I expect the same will be true for some of your windows. Wish I could say the same for the expensive paint I used.

I've also spliced timber patches into frames, and even re-made joints and replaced rotten rails, in order to save as much of the original joinery as possible.

It may well be cheaper to have new sashes made rather than dismantling and repairing the originals, but:

a) I was doing the work myself, not paying someone else
b) the windows are quite old and the mouldings differ from 'off the self' offerings - an exact copy would require more effort
c) I'm keen to retain as much of the historic fabric as possible, even if it is the hardest option

Andrew's suggestion about having new sashes made instead is valid though, and may be the most sensible and cost efficient option.