Solid Oak Flooring with UFH

[RedwoodRenovation]

I've seen various comments about using solid oak flooring with UFH.

I'd like to use solid, rather then engineered flooring, as the prices difference is huge and I've got about 100m2 or so to do!

Has anyone done this and if so, what are the results and have you had any problems with movement?

Cheers

Graham

 

[Penners]

Some friends of ours have solid oak floors over UFH, and they've had no problems apart from a few minorcracks. They used T&G 21mm boards, which they had kiln-dried to 12% moisture content. However, the supplier of the boards made them sign a disclaimer that he would not be responsible for any movement or cracking in the floor.

But ultimately, it must be said that you pays yer money and takes yer choice. Using oak boards in this way is not without its risks, and nobody can guarantee that won't have problems. Engineered boards would be a much safer bet.

 

[mivec]

These guys claim to have "no adverse effect" with their new solid oak boards over UFH
http://www.antiquebuildings.co.uk/homedetails/flooring.htm

 

[AMc]

I have a mixture of original floorboards and engineered oak over underfloor heating. At present the engineered boards are OK. Most of the original pine boards are also fine but a few which were visibly cracked when laid have opened up a bit more.
I have a pal who has a barn conversion fully laid in solid oak over underfloor which he heats to 55C without, it seems adverse effects.

Personally I would plump for engineered with a decent 6mm veneer over solid to make cracking and movement less likely but if you glue the floor with the right stuff you should be OK either way.

Slightly over order and check the quality of each board while laying and reject anything that looks like it's going to split or bend. The packs I bought warned that up to 5% could be unusable out of the box because of wood defects and only larger proportions would be acceptable for returns.

Beware when comparing prices as the quality can vary a lot. I looked at 'solid oak' in the DIY sheds and discovered it was stripwood glued together and looked as cheap as the laminate with photos of wood on it. It was also much more expensive than the engineered board I got. The stuff I got is single planks of veneer on each board so looks more like 'proper' floorboards. My engineered board came from http://www.vanillawoodfloors.co.uk/ and is olivia dark oak. They were on offer which dropped the price to around £35pm2 +VAT IIRC - I have no connection to them other than I bought 52m2 and it was good

 

[biffvernon]

A lot must depend on whether you want the floor to stay looking as it does on the day it is laid, or if you're the sort of person who goes into a 300 year old National Trust property and remarks "Wished we had a floor like that".

Some folk welcome a few cracks, gaps and warps.

 

[Nigel Watts]

We have engineered oak boards above UFH in our basement and side corridor. Cost is one factor but its also worth thinking about how long they will survive before they are ripped out again as part of the next refurbishment. We have a fitted kitchen in the rear of our basement. When that wears out and is replaced, as it surely will be, there is a strong likelihood that the floor will need to be redone at the same time because all the holes will be in the wrong place.

There is no point spending a mint on something that could last centuries when its life expectancy is a couple of decades at best.

 

[biffvernon]

What absurd notions. Why would one install things into a house that were not designed to last at least a lifetime?

Oak boards above plumbing should be screwed not nailed for ease of servicing. (Traditional brass slotted not stainless cross headed, of course.)

 

[Nigel Watts]

I agree with you Biff, in an ideal world.

The reality is that people move house, fashions change and new people arrive with new ideas. Things get ripped out, often still with plenty of wear left, and new things get installed. This is especially true in more prosperous parts of London. Much of what people ask about on this site is evidence that this goes on.

1970s bathroom suites in avocado, complete with bidet that noone quite knows how to use, are capable of lasting centuries, yet how many will survive this long?

I believe it is more realistic to recognise that parts of one's house will not last, for a whole variety of reasons, and not waste resources building a level of permanence that cant be justified.

 

[RedwoodRenovation]

Thanks for all your replies!

The boards have 8% moisture content, so I'm fairly happy with the level of risk that I may have of warping and splitting!

Also, I don't mind a bit of character, as it'll add to the charm of the floor.

Cheers

Graham

 

[Ushy M]

complete with bidet that noone quite knows how to use,

And just how, pray, is one otherwise expected to wash one's wellies?

 

[Nigel Watts]

WELLIES! Now I understand.

 

[Aidan]

Oak boards above plumbing should be screwed not nailed for ease of servicing. (Traditional brass slotted not stainless cross headed, of course.)

You won't need to get to UFH pipe. The whole floor will expand and contract as it absorbs and emits moisture from/to the atmosphere and it should float. Fixings to the sub-floor will crack it.

 

[biffvernon]

The boards have 8% moisture content,

Not any more - unless you are keeping them in a very dry, heated indoors.

 

[biffvernon]

You won't need to get to UFH pipe. The whole floor will expand and contract as it absorbs and emits moisture from/to the atmosphere and it should float. Fixings to the sub-floor will crack it.

Now that's an interesting comment.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Our basement floor is free-floating, comprising oak-faced ply with edges machined so that they snap together. Skirtings were applied later so that the expansion gap is covered by them. Needless to say in the fitted kitchen end the builders didn't bother to carry the flooring any further than the fitted units, so if these were ever altered there would gaps. The underfloor heating pipes are embedded in I dont quite know what then covered in a cement-like substance. It will be a pain when they start to leak, as surely they must one day.

 

[Aidan]

Now that's an interesting comment.

Is it?
Why?

 

[biffvernon]

Why? You wrote it so I guess you thought it would be interesting. And it raises quite a number of issues.

 

[Aidan]

What issues?
There should be no joints or fittings in an UFH system and there's no need to provide access. There should be no need to get access to it for the life of the system/floor. IMHO PEX would outlast the floor.

Access to plumbing systems (H&C water, drainage) should be provided as you'd described.
The planks will undergo seasonal expansion and contraction. Fixing individual planks will result in gaps opening and closing. Engineered floors have an edge lock system and the expansion gap is usually provided around the edges under the skirting.
The common problems are poor quality timber warping, timber inadequately dried before fixing or moisture from the inadequately dried sub-floor.

I haven't done any UFH for a few years the above is open to correction.

 

[biffvernon]

What issues?
There should be no need to get access to it for the life of the system/floor. IMHO PEX would outlast the floor.

Well That's the first issue. How long does a floor last. To my mind the nicest floors tend to be more than two centuries old. Maybe a lot more.

Engineered floors have an edge lock system

But what will they look like in two centuries?

 

[Flyfisher]

I'm certainly no expert but I don't see why a concrete floor with plastic UFH pipework should not last more than two centuries.

I also wonder if people building houses 200 years ago really built them to last (excepting 'stately' homes) or whether it's just that the materials used just happened to be that durable. I feel sure the people that built the timber frame part of our house weren't thinking about it still being in pretty good condition 450 years later, they just used the standard oak available at the time.

I can see both sides of the issue though and a lot depends on who the property ends up with and their views of the importance of keeping up with the latest fashion, in which case Nigel's point about not wasting loads of money on something that will probably be ripped out and replaced withing 20-30 years, or less, is valid, or maintaining the original fabric of the building, in which case Biff's point about using the best possible materials is valid.