Single-skinned gable wall problem - from the Test Me section

[Moo]

We have just purchased a semi detached Victorian house for cash. The house has a single skin gable end wall of 120 mm, from bottom to top and no lenders would give us a mortgage because of this wall. We borrowed money from family to buy the house and now we need to resolve the wall in order to re-apply for a mortgage. We have had a full building survey done on the house and the wall is structurally sound and not load bearing. The lenders declined to offer us a mortgage because the wall a. it could become structurally un-sound and b. because of the poor u-value/energy efficiency. We are taking advice from a structural engineer on how best to improve the wall, but does anybody have any experience/suggestions to offer about what the mortgage lenders would consider as satisfactory? Resolving the wall from a structural/building point of view is obviously not quite the same thing as resolving it to suit a lender. We have, thus far, not been able to get any clear answers beyond the house must not be more than 20% single skin and then the golden phrase " it's up to the discretion of the valuation surveyor on the day". If any body has had a similar experience and has suggestions on what lenders expect, we would be extremely grateful. Thank you, Emma - from Rothwell, Northamptonshire.

 

[messiregan]

Thank you Moo. No, we haven't given up!

 

[Keith Bowman]

To complete the post it was from:
messiregan » Thu 26th Mar, 2015 1:08 pm

Welcome - I can't give any help on the answer either but I'm sure the subject has come up before. Perhaps a patient search will find it.

 

[Roger H]

Hi Moo.

If no one comes up with a solution here try posting it on http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/. I'd imagine you are looking at a new internal wall tied to the existing with insulation between though.

Best,

Roger

 

[Flyfisher]

Hi messiregan,

All I can suggest is to look for a different lender.

The lenders declined to offer us a mortgage because the wall a. it could become structurally un-sound and b. because of the poor u-value/energy efficiency.

Both these reasons seem very odd to me. You have a full building survey stating the wall is 'structurally sound' yet the mortgage company refuse on the basis that it 'could become' unsound. Well, yes, I suppose it could but what on earth do they have in mind? As for poor energy efficiency, what has that go to do with the mortgage company?

From your statement "it's up to the discretion of the valuation surveyor on the day", I wonder if you were seeking a very high loan-to-value mortgage and that their position may be different if you were seeking a smaller loan. Lenders want to be confident they could quickly and easily sell the house in the event of default, so perhaps they feel these reasons would devalue the house, meaning they might not be able to recover the full amount of the loan you're seeking. But who really knows?

As for single skin construction, I don't think it's particularly unusual, especially among Victorian houses. Perhaps your particular lender just has arbitrary policies about such things, in much the same way that some lenders don't like thatched roofs. All you can really do is look for another lender.





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[TheRoost]

I've seen lots of Victorian houses that are single skin 115mm front and back, so I've always assumed the whole house is built like that, including the gable end. These houses generally seem to get bought and sold without problems.

Is the whole gable end single skin, or just part of it? Does it have a chimney breast? Are there other factors, such as condition of brickwork, ground conditions etc. affecting the report?

How many lenders have you tried? I can only think that the particular lender is very picky and can get enough business mortgaging fairly modern or new build properties.

 

[formerly known as]

I am dealing with a similar problem at the moment, although slightly more complex - circa 1970 1/2 brick gable apex bearing directly on a 17th c tie beam, below which is timber frame that has been cut to take an 18th c chimney breast and to the other side a circa 1930 1/2 brick section of walling - my solution is to build up an inner s/w frame that is tied to the outer walling, then insulated with hemp batts, then lath and plastered with hairy chalk lime. Additional restraint is to be provided by strapping over joists and rafters in the usual manner.

You could try the ecology building society for the mortgage, then insurance from the NFU.

Don't panic.

 

[Keithj]

When we bought this house 5 years ago (16th century, timber frame and lime render, in need of some repair), we were warned by the estate agent and our solicitor that most building societies wouldn't touch it. We didn't want a mortgage anyway, but I was surprised at that attitude.

 

[messiregan]

We tried lots of lenders, including a broker who claimed he could get a mortgage for anything. In the end I was left feeling that the property was not valuable enough for any mortgage company to be bothered with the small risk of the wall. They all want bog standard properties that can be sold without a second thought. It's a shame for so many lovely older properties that just need a little love. They would have us all buy boring new builds at crazy prices...There are no other structural issues with the house. A structural engineer has said that the gable end wall (single skin top to bottom) is sound but recommended timber studwork on the inside. He did say that around 30% of walls of this thickness, over 100 years old would probably have bowed by now and so the studwork will prevent that from ever happening. He has recommended the wall be tied in with helifix. Does anyone have any experience of using them? Thanks for everyone's replies.

 

[Penners]

does anybody have any experience/suggestions to offer about what the mortgage lenders would consider as satisfactory?

Wouldn't it be advisable to ask a few mortgage providers? Sit down with them and explain the structure of the house, then see what their reaction is. If they require improvements to the wall(s), then ask them what modifications would be required in order for you to qualify for a mortgage. If you tell them that you're having a structural engineer make recommendations, I'd be surprised if they wouldn't agree to a mortgage once his/her recommendations have been implemented.