Single glazed window does not meet regs - help

[isv]

I needed to replace a horrible 50s era metal window in my victorian house (unlisted, NOT in a conservation area). The other windows are all very beautiful original casements with very numerous small panes held in place with slim window bars.

I considered double-glazed units but because of the thickness of bars required to hold the double-glazed panes in place they would not look anything like the originals and we'd not be able to get the same number of panes in the window. So I decided to go and get a single glazed replacement made - it looks fabulous and I'm very happy with it.

I've got a buildings inspector coming around in a couple of weeks - he needs to do a final inspection on some repair work and I'm worried he will notice the new window and force us to bin it and replace with a double glazed unit.

I should mention that the horrible 50s style window that was there before had some secondary glazing fitted (as did most of the windows in the house) which I removed (and stashed in my shed) - they simply screw to the wall. If I fitted one of these to the new window would that be acceptable if questioned? I would then immediately remove it.

What options do I have to ensure I keep my lovely replacement window? Or am I worrying unnecessarily?

 

[Nemesis]

I'd close the curtains!

Paint it, add a large pot plant...

Just don't mention it!

Unless he knows it's new, can he prove how long it's been there?

 

[isv]

Well it is brand new & freshly painted. I could claim it was there when we moved in (1yr ago) or simply be honest and put a secondary glazing panel inside - but pointless doing that if secondary glazing is not acceptable these days!

 

[Nemesis]

Not for a new window really - hard to meet the current building regs (crazy I agree...) but just try not to mention it is my view.

Will the Inspector have to go near it?

 

[Ian Bond]

You don't have to upgrade your windows to meet modern regs, so long as you are only repairing them.

Which is what you are doing, isn't it? Just don't tell anyone otherwise.

 

[Flyfisher]

If a house is listed then, as I understand it, the current owners are liable for any issues arising out of unauthorised work, regardless of who did and when.

Is the same true with unapproved or non-compliant works to unlisted properties? I.e. if a non-compliant window was installed by a previous owner, would the new owner really be in the clear?

 

[Ian Bond]

In the clear of what 'crime' exactly?

The offence of installing lovely windows?

 

[Juju]

I agree with Nem. Just don't mention it. The building inspector will only be interested in the work he knows you've done and that he's there to inspect. I think I've said this before in another post but I sold my house last year with 2 new windows and yes, they were the right spec but I didn't have any of the relevant documentation to prove they met the right standards - I didn't see why I should pay for the relevant inspection as I'd replaced nasty draughty 1970s windows with tasteful timber d/g windows. I even declared it on the solicitor's form and no-one followed it up...

 

[Flyfisher]

In the clear of what 'crime' exactly?

The 'crime' of not bowing to the nanny state?

The offence of installing lovely windows?

Yes, mad isn't it - but it's the law :roll:

Mind you, I wonder how much encouragement this forum would give to breaking laws regarding listed buildings. :wink:

 

[Ian Bond]

In the clear of what 'crime' exactly?

The 'crime' of not bowing to the nanny state?

The offence of installing lovely windows?

Yes, mad isn't it - but it's the law :roll:

Mind you, I wonder how much encouragement this forum would give to breaking laws regarding listed buildings. :wink:

I'd hope that the forum would encourage people to treat period properties with the respect that they deserve, regardless of listed status.

 

[Flyfisher]

I entirely agree with those sentiments, but what happens when modern window regulations dictate something less than sympathetic must be fitted to an unlisted period property?

 

[Ian Bond]

You either conform to the regs and fit something that complies, or don't, and face the risk of a legal or financial consequence.

If you don't comply, and never sell then there's no problem. If you do sell then it's up to you whether or not you wish to 'come clean'

What then - knock money off the sale price for replacements that comply, or do the work at your own expense?

The problem with DG and multi-paned windows with narrow glazing bars has been covered well enough on the forum.

In addition to the aesthetic problems, my other issue with sealed unit dg is one of their relatively short service life. At some point they are bound to fail and will require replacement. Perhaps not all at once, but it is going to be an ongoing cost for someone.

I would not expect to have to begin replacing all my single glazed panes after 20 years or so. Excepting accidents they should last many centuries.

There are plenty of measures that can be taken to improve the thermal efficiency of single glazed windows, and of the the building in general. None of them suit an industry with a vested interest in selling a product with built-in obsolescence.

 

[isv]

Anyone know if secondary glazing will allow me to meet building regs???

 

[Nemesis]

Very unlikely.

 

[Gervase]

Part L is supposed to be assessed on a 'whole house' basis, so if the BCO should happen to notice the new window and somehow convince himself that it is new and not a repair, and force you under torture to admit such, then you may still be able to carry the day by arguing that your insulation elsewhere is of such a standard that the window doesn't count.
It might be worth reminding him/her (again, in the unlikely event that the subject crops up) that the fenestration proportions on old buildings are much lower than new - smaller windows and more wall - so again, the 'whole house' rule can work in your favour...
But as the window was merely a repair and not a replacement, I can't for the life of me see why the subject need arise :wink:

 

[biffvernon]

(whoa, warr' 'append?)

Indeed. But for a replacement you may have to do the SAP calculations. There's software that allows you to enter the parameters for all aspects of the house and then calculates whether you have met the requirements. Unless you are very keen to learn how it all works you will probably have to hire someone who knows. Unless you have added a great deal of insulation to the house and/or your windows are rather small, you may well find that you have a problem.

 

[Ian Bond]

True.

Although perhaps it's got more complicated recently? A year or so back I put the calculations for my house into a DIY Excel spreadsheet, but could get nowhere near achieving the target u value.

The solid stone walls and direct to earth floor proved to be a real problem.

Despite the fact that the house is an inner terrace, with tiny windows covering just 4% of the building's external envelope, I missed the target by about 300%.

I can only realistically increase insulation in the roofspace. Digging up the floors or adding insulation to the walls would be next to impossible, and certainly could not be done without ruining the house. I think that it would be easier to knock it down and start again, although the neighbours may object.

Even if I blocked all of the windows up with masonry and insulation board, the saving achieved would nowhere near compensate for the poor performance of the remaining 96% of the relevant structure.

Having said all that, in reality the house has actually proven to be easy and relatively cheap to heat, so perhaps it is actually performing rather better than the theoretical figures would suggest?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

From http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professionals/en/1115314116322.html

Status of Approved Documents
The Approved Documents are intended to provide guidance for some of the more common building situations. However, there may well be alternative ways of achieving compliance with the requirements. Thus there is no obligation to adopt any particular solution contained in an Approved Document if it is preferred to meet the relevant requirement in some other way.

Therefore, secondary glazing to a new window is acceptable.

 

[Nemesis]

If it can meet the regs...

 

[Gareth Hughes]

If it can meet the regs...

Indeed. And the Regulation is as follows:

"Reasonable provision shall be made for the conservation of fuel and power in buildings by:
a. Limiting heat gains and losses:
i. Through thermal elements and other parts of the building fabric .... <snip stuff about pipework etc>"

All the rest is guidance only