Silicate Masonry Paint - Choices

[tvrulesme]

Have some freshly finished interior Lime plaster walls and looking towards decorating.

Having been round the houses via clay paint, limewash, distemper etc I am settled on Mineral Paint. All well and good but I now find a dizzying array of options and I don't know where to start.

In terms of things which are important
- Should be readily available - Stuff you can get from Brewers or other large sellers where I can easily get more if needed without crazy delivery charges
- Comes in a range of colours - Doesn't need to be that wide but at least some choice
- Durable - Ideally scrub resistant class 1 (we have dogs)

I would have said cost is a factor but frankly all options look crazy expensive so I'm going to have to suck it up.

So options looks like:
Earthbourne Silicate Masonry
Graphenstone - GCS Interior Premium - Comes in silly sized 4L containers which is annoying
Beeck - Maxil Pro
Keim - Optil
Johnstones Stormshield Sol Silicate Masonry - Targetted to exterior, not sure if this is a problem

How do people make their decision on which to go for? Is there much in it or are they pretty much all the same thing?

I have plenty of time for research. Lime plaster is 25mm thick in some places so I estimate curing will be complete in March 2025

 

[Lacan07]

This looks lovely, any chance of a close up of the lime finish? Is it a rustic finish?

Choosing a paint for lime can be bewildering, I've recently been looking at silicate paint too. My decision may well be tipped by the fact I have 'The Lime Centre' not 40 minutes drive from me and they sell Beeck Maxil. The range of colours is fairly extensive, it has an SD value similar to lime wash (apparently), and its quite hardy. I'm not sure about the primer however. As for the cost well thats old buildings for you, only pure lime wash is cheap when it comes to breathable paints.

 

[tvrulesme]

This looks lovely, any chance of a close up of the lime finish? Is it a rustic finish?

Choosing a paint for lime can be bewildering, I've recently been looking at silicate paint too. My decision may well be tipped by the fact I have 'The Lime Centre' not 40 minutes drive from me and they sell Beeck Maxil. The range of colours is fairly extensive, it has an SD value similar to lime wash (apparently), and its quite hardy. I'm not sure about the primer however. As for the cost well thats old buildings for you, only pure lime wash is cheap when it comes to breathable paints.

Thanks so much. Yes it's a pretty rustic finish, pictures below. This was 25mm of hemp lime plaster base coat followed by St Astier EcoMortar R50. Had to hack off a whole load of horribly damp and crumbling gypsum to get to this point

Mine is in a bit of a black spot when it comes to traditional materials suppliers which is a bit odd as Kent has a whole heap of historic buildings.

I did look at lime wash but it just looks like such a faff to put on, not very durable and I'm kind of done with mess.

Had a really extensive reply from Keim who were hugely helpful and can match F&B colours so they are favourites so far.

 

[Lacan07]

Thanks so much. Yes it's a pretty rustic finish, pictures below. This was 25mm of hemp lime plaster base coat followed by St Astier EcoMortar R50. Had to hack off a whole load of horribly damp and crumbling gypsum to get to this point

Mine is in a bit of a black spot when it comes to traditional materials suppliers which is a bit odd as Kent has a whole heap of historic buildings.

I did look at lime wash but it just looks like such a faff to put on, not very durable and I'm kind of done with mess.

Had a really extensive reply from Keim who were hugely helpful and can match F&B colours so they are favourites so far.

View attachment 15223

View attachment 15224

Thanks, St Astier comes with a good reputation.

For what its worth 'The Lime Centre' warned me off using lime wash paint internally, even the hardier, embellished versions. I agree on the faff factor, dusting can be a problem if the wall is watered enough.

I'll take a look at Keim, do they require a primer like Beeck?

 

[tvrulesme]

Thanks, St Astier comes with a good reputation.

For what its worth 'The Lime Centre' warned me off using lime wash paint internally, even the hardier, embellished versions. I agree on the faff factor, dusting can be a problem if the wall is watered enough.

I'll take a look at Keim, do they require a primer like Beeck?

They do. Specs they sent:

Product properties of Keim Optil

• Water vapour permeable, non-film forming, and micro-porous
• Multi-purpose application
• Abrasion resistant
• Non-flammable - A2-s1, d0 - attached is the Keim Optil fire certificate:
• Intense and lightfast colour shades
• Outstanding opacity
• No solvents and plasticisers added
• Certified resistance to mould growth
• Low environmental impact
• Natureplus certification
• Cradle to Cradle Certified®

The specification gives, pre-treatment and application advice, consumption rate guide, 2024 prices and other important advice on using keim Mineral Paints.

The first coat would be Keim Granital Dilution onto the dry lime plaster – please refer to the specification………..followed by 2 coats of Keim Optil in the chosen colour – please leave 12 hours between coats.

Based on the consumption rate guide in the specification for 31 sqm you will require:
5lt Keim Granital Dilution
10lt Keim Optil in your chosen colour.

 

[larry]

We have used Tikkurilla Optiva Colour for interior. I can't tell you how it compares to the paints above for quality etc but they are one of the only "standard" companies which publish their SD values on the website. We have had no problems so far.

We used Ceresit CT54 silicate paint for exterior, it was the cheapest I could find and we only wanted white.

 

[tvrulesme]

The suprise option I can't find any info on is Johnstones Stormshield Sol Silicate Masonry. Interested in this, mainly because you can get it from Brewers which I have just down the road and you can use their very extensive colour pallete which you can colour match to F&B etc

Johnstones Trade Stormshield Sol Silicate Masonry (Tinted) PPG1008-3 Evening Shore 5L

Johnstone's Stormshield Sol Silicate Masonry Paint is a breathable, matt finish designed for exterior lime render, plaster and masonry. The Sol Silicate technology is non film forming and fully breathable, preventing moisture build up and helps to preserve the surface structure. The finish also...

www.brewers.co.uk

 

[tvrulesme]

We have used Tikkurilla Optiva Colour for interior. I can't tell you how it compares to the paints above for quality etc but they are one of the only "standard" companies which publish their SD values on the website. We have had no problems so far.

We used Ceresit CT54 silicate paint for exterior, it was the cheapest I could find and we only wanted white.

Thank you. I'm suprised that posting SD values seems to be much more common place now. F&B do. Little Greene do. Table below shows my research so far. Farrow and Ball Estate Emulsion is the suprising entry here, although not that suprising when you see how crazy undurable it is. I breathe on it and it falls off the wall

Paint breathability (SD Value Lower better)	SD
Earthborn Claypaint	0.02​
Little Green Absolute Matt Emulsion	0.13​
Little Green Distemper	0.03​
Farrow and Ball Estate Emulsion	0.01​
Coat Claypaint	0.02​
Farrow and Ball Distemper	0.008​

 

[tvrulesme]

The silcate paints are crazy low SD but also durable which is what is guiding me towards them

Washability (EN 13300) Class 1
Water vapour permeability V ≥ 545 g/(m² · d) | sd ≤ 0,04 m

 

[Lacan07]

They do. Specs they sent:

Product properties of Keim Optil

• Water vapour permeable, non-film forming, and micro-porous
• Multi-purpose application
• Abrasion resistant
• Non-flammable - A2-s1, d0 - attached is the Keim Optil fire certificate:
• Intense and lightfast colour shades
• Outstanding opacity
• No solvents and plasticisers added
• Certified resistance to mould growth
• Low environmental impact
• Natureplus certification
• Cradle to Cradle Certified®

The specification gives, pre-treatment and application advice, consumption rate guide, 2024 prices and other important advice on using keim Mineral Paints.

The first coat would be Keim Granital Dilution onto the dry lime plaster – please refer to the specification………..followed by 2 coats of Keim Optil in the chosen colour – please leave 12 hours between coats.

Based on the consumption rate guide in the specification for 31 sqm you will require:
5lt Keim Granital Dilution
10lt Keim Optil in your chosen colour.

Do they provide an SD value, all I can find is 'highly breathable'

 

[Lacan07]

The silcate paints are crazy low SD but also durable which is what is guiding me towards them

Washability (EN 13300) Class 1
Water vapour permeability V ≥ 545 g/(m² · d) | sd ≤ 0,04 m

ignore my last comment lol

 

[Lacan07]

Thank you. I'm suprised that posting SD values seems to be much more common place now. F&B do. Little Greene do. Table below shows my research so far. Farrow and Ball Estate Emulsion is the suprising entry here, although not that suprising when you see how crazy undurable it is. I breathe on it and it falls off the wall

Paint breathability (SD Value Lower better)	SD
Earthborn Claypaint	0.02​
Little Green Absolute Matt Emulsion	0.13​
Little Green Distemper	0.03​
Farrow and Ball Estate Emulsion	0.01​
Coat Claypaint	0.02​
Farrow and Ball Distemper	0.008​

many people are suspicious of the designer paint companies claims for breathability

 

[tvrulesme]

many people are suspicious of the designer paint companies claims for breathability

I am one of those people though I don't know the science behind why I am skeptical. These are found on their data sheets so I guess you have to assume there is some kind of testing behind it.

I did hear that Dulux used to use breathable as a term for low VoC which basically meant humans could breathe without harm and had nothing to do with sd values but that may well be an old wives tale

 

[Kearn]

For me it’s one of two options, especially once you’ve invested the time and money in getting back to full lime - Ingilby or Rose of Jericho. Speak to Tom or Nigel, at the aforementioned and they will happily walk you through everything from science to practicality, with zero hard sell.

Many of those you’ve listed aren’t really suitable. Convenience of a Brewers wouldn’t be a factor at the final stage of all that hard work.

Internally limewash can be a pain, but dirt cheap if you make your own. It will rub off, needs 4-6 initial coats, 24hrs apart. And will need periodically topping up. Colours are limited too as pigments can’t be held as there’s no binder.

My choice is distemper, not soft as that is delicate, not full oil, but casein. It has linseed oil to provide a little durability for practicality and can hold pigment for a range of colours. They’ll colour match also within reason.

 

[Kearn]

I am one of those people though I don't know the science behind why I am skeptical. These are found on their data sheets so I guess you have to assume there is some kind of testing behind it.

I did hear that Dulux used to use breathable as a term for low VoC which basically meant humans could breathe without harm and had nothing to do with sd values but that may well be an old wives tale

Breathability and old buildings

In the context of building materials, and with particular reference to old and historic buildings, the generic term ‘breathable’ is used to describe an important property of building fabric: the extent to which building materials are able to transmit moisture.

www.spab.org.uk

Breathability is a marketing term. Unregulated and thrown around. Often as you say, referencing humans not the paint.

Ask for a data sheet and spot the chemical binders. Most won’t provide one and get cagey.

SD values are also misleading, lab tested based on vapour permeability, not liquid moisture. Genuine coatings will absorb airborne moisture, hang on to it, then release, the same way lime does.

 

[tvrulesme]

For me it’s one of two options, especially once you’ve invested the time and money in getting back to full lime - Ingilby or Rose of Jericho. Speak to Tom or Nigel, at the aforementioned and they will happily walk you through everything from science to practicality, with zero hard sell.

Many of those you’ve listed aren’t really suitable. Convenience of a Brewers wouldn’t be a factor at the final stage of all that hard work.

Internally limewash can be a pain, but dirt cheap if you make your own. It will rub off, needs 4-6 initial coats, 24hrs apart. And will need periodically topping up. Colours are limited too as pigments can’t be held as there’s no binder.

My choice is distemper, not soft as that is delicate, not full oil, but casein. It has linseed oil to provide a little durability for practicality and can hold pigment for a range of colours. They’ll colour match also within reason.

Many thanks Kearn. There's a spanner in the works....

Reached out to Rose of Jericho and my contacts in Ty-Mawr and Mike Wye. I originally looked at Casein Distemper but discounted on durability concerns.

Disadvantages

• Durability: Typically lasts only 3-4 years before needing a repaint.
• Limited Washability: Not suitable for areas that require frequent cleaning.
• Color Fading: Colors may fade faster compared to emulsion paints.
• Peeling Risk: Can peel off when exposed to moisture or excessive scrubbing.

It only takes one muddy walk with my dogs and their love of rubbing up against the walls to fill me with dread.

Convenience of Brewers was a stupid thing really although it's much nicer (and environmentally freindly) to be able to physically visit the place you're buying from and get colour cards rather than the long haul of post and couriers.

 

[tvrulesme]

And an impressively quick response from Rose of Jericho

We do not produce a silicate paint but as far as I understand they are more expensive, less permeable as they do not cope with salts that well but are more durable than a distemper

 

[Lacan07]

Many thanks Kearn. There's a spanner in the works....

Reached out to Rose of Jericho and my contacts in Ty-Mawr and Mike Wye. I originally looked at Casein Distemper but discounted on durability concerns.

Disadvantages

• Durability: Typically lasts only 3-4 years before needing a repaint.
• Limited Washability: Not suitable for areas that require frequent cleaning.
• Color Fading: Colors may fade faster compared to emulsion paints.
• Peeling Risk: Can peel off when exposed to moisture or excessive scrubbing.

It only takes one muddy walk with my dogs and their love of rubbing up against the walls to fill me with dread.

Convenience of Brewers was a stupid thing really although it's much nicer (and environmentally freindly) to be able to physically visit the place you're buying from and get colour cards rather than the long haul of post and couriers.

Thats interesting, I also read on ROJ it was to be applied with brush only and to expect a variation in depth / tone so no consistent block colour? Sometimes that can look quite nice but no so much perhaps if you want a modern look. I must say the original distemper in my house, whatever its made of, is extremely durable.

 

[Lacan07]

And an impressively quick response from Rose of Jericho

This is Beeck Silicate paint:

Highly breathable - Sd rating - 0.01m



£151 for 12.5L - coverage is 7m2 per L