Shower Problems

[Anne]

I'd rather not have to rip out my shower and start all over again but my problem seems to be that the floor moves. It's tiled with natural clay tiles over a shower tray. The tiles have been sealed but the grout keeps cracking due to movement, I've tried flexable grout, putting a plastic seal at the bottom and it's still leaking. Anything else to try or does it have to go?

 

[NT]

I'd rather not have to rip out my shower and start all over again but my problem seems to be that the floor moves. It's tiled with natural clay tiles over a shower tray. The tiles have been sealed but the grout keeps cracking due to movement, I've tried flexable grout, putting a plastic seal at the bottom and it's still leaking. Anything else to try or does it have to go?

I'm rather unclear what you've got there, as you say the tiles are _over_ a shower tray...?

Anyway, I can say that relying on a layer of tiling to be waterproof is a recipe for failure. When you need it to be waterproof, a membrane under the tiles is needed. Its all explained on the BAL tile adhesives site.


NT

 

[Gervase]

Is the cracked grout always between the tray and the tiles?
If that's the case, you'll need a bead of silicone sealant between the tray and the wall.
That's only a stopgap (no pun intended) measure, however. You probably don't want to hear this, but it may be necessary to go back to square one if the leak is also coming through the tiled wall.
What's behind the clay tiles? AS NT says, the base onto which you stick them needs to be rigid and waterproof - and plasterboard, plaster on lath and similar wall coatings aren't up to the job.

 

[Lime]

I would make the same comment as NT.

You will always have problems if you do not have a totally waterproof shower tray/floor. Tiles are decorative and they do not stop water leaking through. At best tiles deflect water but do not stop it.

It sounds from your description that you have tiles in a shower tray that leaks. The shower tray needs replacing or resealing. It is possible that the tiles have damaged the tray because of weight placed upon them and their sharp/hard edges have cut into or split the tray.
Also the tray may be on moving floorboards which will also give you problems.

 

[CHRIS]

Make sure that the tray is secure, most come with these adjustable legs but are a pain to fix down. The key is having a solid floor which by the sounds of it you dont, a trick you could try (but could turn into a disaster so dont blame me!!) is to first insert 3 x 4x2 cut down to exactly the right size to fit under the tray to push it up under the tiles and the screw at 45deg down into the sub floor (this replaces thes leg things), before you slide them under get some gripfill on them and after they are in place put some serious weight in the tray to hold it down until the stuff goes off, finally redo your silicone and wait 48hrs for it all to go off.

remember you have to stop all movement and have it level as this is key to stopping leaks. As NT says the tiles and grout are not good as the only barrier in a house with movement

http://periodpropertyshop.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6924&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

check out from yesterday

 

[Moo]

Surely leakages between the tray and the wall are always going to be a risk with old houses simply because there will inevitably be movement?

The only certain answer would be one of those all-in-one shower modules; unfortunately you have to choose between glorious+prohibitively expensive or affordable and really naff.

 

[Anne]

I didn't explain myself very well last night, it was late. Although from the posts so far it's looking like it has to come out. The shower tray is ceramic and is built up on thick blocks of wood that part is all connected and solid. So there is a step up to get into the shower. There was a huge gap though between the shower tray and the clay tiles on the wall. This was filled with that nasty clear stuff, it leaked anyway so we then added a horrible plastic trim piece. The cracks however keep showing up on the wall even though half the grout has been replaced with plastic movement stuff. The wall is drywall and plaster, its rather new. Horrible place for a bathroom anyway but someone in the 1970's gave listed building consent to put it there and block a fireplace. The tiles I'm sure were just put up with adhesive and no barrier, if they have to come down might as well put any ugly shower unit in at least it won't leak, and can always be popped out in the future.

 

[Penners]

Anne - over the years I have had several shower installations in upstairs rooms with timber floors. I'm sorry to say that your chances of creating a long-term leak-free installation are remote.

Flexible silicone mastics will help in the medium term, but ultimately even they will fail. The problem is that whenever someone steps into the shower, they cause the shower tray to move - sometimes obviously, sometimes imperceptably. But this constant movement, combined with the natural movement of timber as the humidity of the air changes, sooner or later causes leaks at points where surfaces join.

Tiles on studwork walls will often develop cracks in their grout, too, for the same reason.

You can postpone these problems by making your shower installation as rigid as possible, but in the long-term you are very unlikely to eliminate them altogether.

Penners
(Fully Qualified Prophet of Doom)

 

[Gervase]

He's a roight miserable b*gger, but sadly he's roight!

 

[CHRIS]

Shower trays with the tile upstands on the edges can help in this situation. they are then sometimes chased into the wall and then tiled properly or you can use one of these - .

http://www.matki.co.uk/2005/products/pdf_downloads/Shower_trays.pdf

have a look at this PDf and get some ideas, but you will be happy when you have done it properly and dont even think about it again - I know this from much heart ache!!!!!!!!

Learn from our Euro friends (except the French !) as most of them use waterproof panels or alike behind their tiles and they dont seem to have the amount of dodgy bathrooms we have in this country. Also have a look at Mermaid Board from Norway (some of the colours are a bit naff but they do a crazy wood one that looks very retro but each to their own)

http://www.norske-int.co.uk/pages/a_frame.html?=page1.html

good luck

 

[Moo]

I think that's the stuff we've got in our two showers.

It's been there for nearly ten years now, and so far there's no sign of any leaks.
I don't know if this is relevant, but because the shower-rooms were being built from scratch (taking a slice of a bedroom), the panelling was fixed straight on to the new studwork with no intervening plasterboard.

Mind you - we've been lucky enough to have brilliant builders who do a really thorough job.