Should I use Lime or More Modern Bonding?

[mnield]

Hi there,

I have been doing alot of renovation with my better half in our house. Its an early 1900s Victorian town house, pretty much it came complete with the usual plaster (lime of course) that you would expect of a Victorian house with the usual chunks taken out of it from years of renovation work, the addition of electricity and the presence of some guy who fitted a back-boiler using seemingly nothing more than a 8lb lump hammer. We're at the point where we need to get the walls plastered and their in varying states. Some still have the old plaster on, some have no plaster left on them at all and others and in a kind of 50/50 state.

AT risk of getting shot down by everyone on the board, I was thinking that essentially we would get new bonding put up where required and then skim the lot. This is something that our first quote seemed to agree with. Today however, we had a second guy come round and give us a quote. He essentially told us that you never skim lime plaster, so the damaged walls could only be patched up. He also said that we coudln't use the more modern plasters as it would not let the walls breath and would eventually ruin the structural integrity of the house. Is this guy makinging sense? It's nothing that I've ever heard before, but then I don't do this for a living so I'm really unsure. What I do know is that I want flat walls and a flat ceiling.

Any help or advice woudl be much appreciated.

Ta

Matt

 

[middi]

If you use lime plaster ( as originally apllied) you cannot go wrong, if you use "modern" plaster materials the risk of introducing a problem is much greater.

 

[mnield]

If you use lime plaster ( as originally apllied) you cannot go wrong, if you use "modern" plaster materials the risk of introducing a problem is much greater.

Thanks for your reply. Is there a way of obtaining a smooth all over finish with lime plaster or do we just have to accept the lumps and bumps? Also, do you need to use special paints on lime plaster? Many thanks, M

 

[Gervase]

You can get lime plaster as smooth as, er, lime plaster - as in Regency and Victorian houses where the lime plaster is a smooth as marble and absolutely plumb and tidy. There's a horrible misconception that lime plaster has to look as though it's been applied with a pair of rubber gloves and a fish-knife. Sure, if you do it yourself and you've never plastered before, you may end up with a finish like that. But if you get a competent plasterer to do the work then you can have a finish that is better than any modern pink skim; flat as a billiard table, smooth as a baby's cheek and fit for another 200 years of use. And you'll be using a material that is right for the building.
You want to see lumps and bumps in lime plaster? Take a look at Castle Howard, or Buckingham Palace, or the Royal Crescent in Bath, or...
But I'm sure you get my drift :wink:

 

[Schoolmarm]

He sounds like the kind of tradesman we all long to meet

 

[DaveBrigg]

Is there a way of obtaining a smooth all over finish with lime plaster or do we just have to accept the lumps and bumps? Also, do you need to use special paints on lime plaster? Many thanks, M

Welcome to the forum!
A self-respecting lime plasterer should be able to skim the original plaster if necessary (and if it is still securely attached). If you want to preserve the advantages of lime, you will need to use breathable paints, which will allow any moisture in the walls to evaporate away. There are several different paints to choose from; a quick search of the forum for 'clay paint' or 'distemper' should get you started.

 

[Penners]

we would get new bonding put up where required and then skim the lot. This is something that our first quote seemed to agree with.

The fact that someone quoted to do this is certainly not confirmation that it should be done.

Listen to your second chap - and to the advice given by the experts in the posts above.

 

[mnield]

Wow - lots of useful responses, thanks!

I'm not of the misconception that lime will be applied with rubber gloves, but the guy suggesting lime everywhere did say that you shouldn't skim lime plaster. Now whether he means skimming with the pink stuff rather than lime I'm not too sure. :?

At the end of the day, I want walls that I can paint over so in a way I not personally indifferent as to what type of plaster may be underneath so long as it is reasonably flat and doesn't wreck the wall and won’t leave me needing another mortgage. I just don't want to see the result of the last 50 years of 'improvements' (i.e. chasing for electric cables) under the plain. So if lime skinning is an option, great!

 

[Gervase]

You can skim lime plaster with lime plaster - a 1:1 mix of silver sand and lime putty makes an excellent skim coat which can be worked to a marble-like finish.
When skimming old lime plaster you should ensure your plasterer wets the surface thoroughly to kill any suction and uses a 'tack coat' of dilute limewash to give better adhesion.

For an even finer polished finish (not recommended if you want to paint over it), marble dust and lime putty mixed 2:1 is ideal. Add pigments to the mix, apply in two very thin coats, burnish the surface further and then wax it and you'll have Venetian plaster - which looks wonderful but isn't really authentic on British vernacular buildings. Having just spent some time in France learning Venetian stucco I'm itching to try it out, but it's one of those finishes that I can't really justify offering to the owners of the average period property.

 

[MdB]

When skimming old lime plaster you should ensure your plasterer wets the surface thoroughly to kill any suction and uses a 'tack coat' of dilute limewash to give better adhesion.

Don't let him use PVA or anything similar to do the same job. This is OK with gypsum but destroys the breathability of lime.

 

[Carol]

Go with lime!
Our whole house was gypsum skimmed in the late seventies and will take years (and a fortune) to recover, with chunks of varying size 'popping off' due to un-breathability. We are slowly improving things by using lime when we 'do' each room in patches, but the damage caused to the breathing external walls is huge and the cost to strip off the gypsum is prohibitive. Your lime man sounds like a man to be encouraged. A new limeskim finish will take a wide range of traditional paints (I am becoming almost evangelical about soft distemper!) and reflect your Victorian house beautifully.

 

[Penners]

Having just spent some time in France learning Venetian stucco

Oh poo - such dedication! Most of us just go to France to eat, drink and sunbathe inappropriately.

 

[Gervase]

Oh, but it did involve herculean quantities of food and drink (although not much sunbathing).