Should I lift my orig.brick floor to put limecrete under it?

[nataliecampbell]

We live in a grade 1 listed, 15th century, timber framed cottage. We have significant damp problems - which we believe to be caused by 'improvements' carried out in the 1970s, including the concreting of floors and application of cement renders to the walls. We have LBC to remove the concrete etc. However, under some of the floors we have discovered an original Victorian brick floor (presumably laid into earth) while in other places there is just earth. Our plan was to leave the brick floors as they are - however our contractor is strongly suggesting that we lift the floor, lay a breathable membrane, limecrete and then relay the floor - which I am not convinced about. With respect to the floors that are just earth I can see that there would be some benefit to doing this but surely if I then lay quarry tiles, for example, on top would this not create a barrier which would negate the efficacy of the limecrete (the quarry tiles would be in a kitchen so would have to be sealed)? Any advice would be gratefully received as we have had a number of conflicting suggestions.....

 

[Feltwell]

Not much help to Natalie but I've wondered about the breathability of tiled floors as well. My house has quite a few tiled floors, mostly original, and I wouldn't have thought that the extremely tight grout lines would give much breathability.

Having said that the previous owners said that when they moved in they took carpet up that was very damp and grotty, and we've had no problems with the now uncovered tiled floors being damp.

 

[Lime]

The majority of tiles I have seen from the victorian era and before are quite porous.
That is supported by the previous owner's comments about lifting the carpet.
If the old brick floor is reasonably flat what is the point in lifting them?
The floor will work best, i.e. allow moisture to evaporate, if no membrane is put down and the brick floor left as it is.
However laying modern "quarry" tiles over the bricks will negate most of the ability of the floor to breath and you would be back to the 1970s solution of making the floor impervious and storing up future damp problems.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

You could always seal your breathable quarry tiles with linseed oil.

 

[nataliecampbell]

Many thanks for all the responses - the concrete has now been removed and we just need to work out how to remove the last bits of concrete and the staining.

 

[Moo]

Our hall and breakfast-room floors have stone flags and pamments respectively, all laid on to earth. They, too, were damp when we uncovered them (cement screed+lino+underlay+carpet) but rapidly dried out and, ten or so years on, have remained dry as a bone.

 

[nataliecampbell]

Thanks Moo

Did you have any problems with kitchen units etc? We are planning to install the new units directly on top of the brick floor. If we let the floor dry out fully beforehand - do you think this will be okay? I am just a bit worried that they will get damp (as the bricks are laid directly into the earth)?

 

[MdB]

Did you have any problems with kitchen units etc? We are planning to install the new units directly on top of the brick floor. If we let the floor dry out fully beforehand - do you think this will be okay? I am just a bit worried that they will get damp (as the bricks are laid directly into the earth)?

If there is any moisture evaporating from your floor, putting typical kitchen units on top will cause damp to get trapped. The solution is simple, make sure that there is good ventilation under the units.

 

[Lime]

If there is any moisture evaporating from your floor, putting typical kitchen units on top will cause damp to get trapped. The solution is simple, make sure that there is good ventilation under the units.

and make sure there is some waterproof material between the floor and the foot/feet of the units.
PVC, glass, plastic, anything small enough not to cover too much floor but stop water traveling up into the unit structure.

 

[RockyRoad]

Interested to read this thread.
We too have a lovely brick floor that we’ve stripped back, removing multiple layers of Lino and mastic.
Despite leaving it to dry out for a few weeks / months, there are still a couple of seemingly damp patches. Highlighted when we finally put a rug down and the next day there was a smell.
As it’s meant to be a playroom, we need something on the floor… any advice?
Sorry - new to this fab site, so forgive me if I’m wrong jumping on an existing thread

 

[Kearn]

Don’t lift them to put limecrete down, as NHL floors aren’t much different to concrete slabs once fully cured, both in terms of rigidity and lack of porosity. The main benefit from a limecrete floor setup is the RFG sub base which acts as a buffer for moisture …

You definitely don’t need to seal tiles for a kitchen or anywhere, they’ll work up a lovely sheen especially if you have dogs/little people…sealing will remove all porosity they may have had. But in reality, the breathability of a tiled floor usually comes through the joints not the tiles anyway.

How sure are you about dating the brick floor to the Victorians?

I’d hazard a guess also that your LBC wouldn’t stretch to lifting an original brick floor and relaying it, but that’s a different debate entirely! Particularly with that level of Listing where a CO should be far more involved.

As others have said, leave the brick floor, don’t seal tiles and ensure that kitchen units have ample airflow (possibly mechanical) under and behind, ideally freestanding units on legs which can be physically separated from the brick surface so as not to allow moisture to track up and rot the carcasses.

Damp can be a complex beast, it may not simply be the floor, that would push moisture sideways to escape through the walls instead. If someone has made the hideous decision to concrete over brick floors, I’d sadly expect that your lime plaster has been replaced or reskimmed with gypsum which won’t be helping matters either. Especially behind kitchen units on external walls.

 

[TudorCottage]

In 2012 our Timber Framed Cottage (listed 16th C) underwent major renovation including the floor. This was all carried out with LBC.

Floor tiles were laid throughout. Major digging must have taken place because in the kitchen they were laid approximately 8 inches below the top of the concrete plynth and Sole Plate and then a 4 inch step up into the living room which is also part of the original cottage. There’s another 4 inch step up into the extension, this being built to modern standards has cavity walls and a damp course.

The added advantage being higher ceilings in the original cottage and the sole plate being exposed to drying winds (albeit being covered in lime render in places)

It shows major renovations can be made to listed buildings if sympathetic. When I show pictures of our cottage to friends they can’t believe that one end of the cottage is 500 years old and the other is just over 10.

Maybe the owner at the time got lucky and the relevant official looked at the plans and decided the changes would help extend the life of the 500 year old original building.

 

[LadyArowana]

Interested to read this thread.
We too have a lovely ,,,,,,,,

Is yours listed? The original thread seems to relate to a property which is.

 

[RockyRoad]

Is yours listed? The original thread seems to relate to a property which is.

Yes, it is. Grade II.