Shellac

[michael]

Can anybody advise me where I might be able to purchase some shellac wood stain? I have an old Baptist chapel (1817 -1880) now part of my home, which has a large, high, timber beamed and timber planked ceiling with its original dark brown stain but with a number of noticeable light water stains from years ago, which I need to re-stain to match the original. I have been advised that due to its age the stain is probably shellac but I’ve yet to get up there and dab with mentholated spirit which I understand will identify it as shellac if it comes away on the cloth.
Searching for shellac stockists on line, all I can seem to find is nail varnish supplies but I’m sure this isn’t what I need. I also noticed that some wood knotting solutions contain shellac and wondered if that might do the job? Any advice on shellac stockists or alternative solutions would be appreciated.

 

[CliffordPope]

You normally buy shellac in the form of solid crystals or flakes, which you dissolve in meths.

 

[plasticpigeon]

French polish is shellac based, as is button polish, I think they are slightly different colours but both a bit yellowy brown. White polish is white/clear. Knotting is something similar, I'm not sure what. However I wouldn't say that french polish is a stain, it is coloured, but it doesn't sink into the wood very far like a stain would, it is more of a surface finish. If you are skilled, you can touch in by mixing dye stains with the polish and evening out the colour, but it takes a lot of effort and determination. It is a very skilled job. I'm not sure who has advised you but I wouldn't take their word as gospel. The first thing to do if you haven't already is clean the wood and see what you have.

 

[DJH]

Now there's a coincidence! I've just stopped for lunch and my next job (after a power nap ) is to seal some resin and plaster patterns prior to casting them in lead.
I got my shellac from...

http://www.industrialplasters.com/

An excellent and helpful company who I dealt with for many years before my retirement (?)

Doug

 

[88v8]

Nice to hear from you Doug.

OP, if you really want to match what's there, I would go to a French polisher who specialises in old furniture restoration, and can match both colour and finish. As pp said, it's a very skilled job.

Ivor

 

[michael]

Thanks all
I should emphasise that the wood ceiling in question, which I believe to be pine, is not in pristine condition as far as the colour is concerned and hasn’t been touched since Victorian times. It’s a combination of brown stain (or shellac, subject to test) which makes up the majority of the surface with light beige water stains in a number of places and no doubt a good helping of grime from the last 140 years or so.
I’m not sure that I need to treat it with the precision of French polishing a piece of furniture, I just want to camouflage the water stains in amongst the original brown stain and grime.I also think that cleaning it might open a can of worms and make things look a lot worse.
I was hoping that I could just lightly rub down the water stain streaks back to the wood and apply the shellac / mentholated spirit mix directly with a brush or cloth if that’s feasible? No pumice powder etc.
Thanks for the Industrial plasters link Doug. Their Release agents and sealers section shows a traditional brown shellac sealer which is meant for sealing plaster casts before making moulds. I like the sound of ‘brown’ shellac but I’m not sure how this product would look on wood which it doesn’t appear to be designed for. They also have shellac flakes to be added to mentholated spirit but there’s no mention of the colour.
My local decorating shop has put me onto Liberon shellac flakes which apparently come in ‘blond’ which is transparent, ‘button’ which is golden brown and ‘garnet which is dark brown. The latter sounds promising but the idea of mixing dye stains into a clear shellac polish as suggested by plastic pigeon sounds like an even better option. Any ideas on what type of dye stains would be compatible? Also do you know if there were any other common staining products other than shellac used by the Victorians? It would no doubt have to have been an economical way of staining a large chapel ceiling.

 

[michael]

Thanks all
I should emphasise that the wood ceiling in question, which I believe to be pine, is not in pristine condition as far as the colour is concerned and hasn’t been touched since Victorian times. It’s a combination of brown stain (or shellac, subject to test) which makes up the majority of the surface with light beige water stains in a number of places and no doubt a good helping of grime from the last 140 years or so.
I’m not sure that I need to treat it with the precision of French polishing a piece of furniture, I just want to camouflage the water stains in amongst the original brown stain and grime.I also think that cleaning it might open a can of worms and make things look a lot worse.
I was hoping that I could just lightly rub down the water stain streaks back to the wood and apply the shellac / mentholated spirit mix directly with a brush or cloth if that’s feasible? No pumice powder etc.
Thanks for the Industrial plasters link Doug. Their Release agents and sealers section shows a traditional brown shellac sealer which is meant for sealing plaster casts before making moulds. I like the sound of ‘brown’ shellac but I’m not sure how this product would look on wood which it doesn’t appear to be designed for. They also have shellac flakes to be added to mentholated spirit but there’s no mention of the colour.
My local decorating shop has put me onto Liberon shellac flakes which apparently come in ‘blond’ which is transparent, ‘button’ which is golden brown and ‘garnet which is dark brown. The latter sounds promising but the idea of mixing dye stains into a clear shellac polish as suggested by plastic pigeon sounds like an even better option. Any ideas on what type of dye stains would be compatible? Also do you know if there were any other common staining products other than shellac used by the Victorians? It would no doubt have to have been an economical way of staining a large chapel ceiling.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Aniline dye stains or some modern equlivalent can be bought in powder form to be mixed with shellac based polish. My dad was a violin maker and restorer and was very good at the colour matching, and used stains with shellac based polishes, so that is where my little knowledge comes from. There were all sorts of stains and varnishes way back. Oil based and alcohol based, using lots of resins, shellac, copal, damar are a few that I know of but there are many.