sheep fleece insulation - borax solution

[janet]

Searching the archives re: insulation and reading with interest about thermafleece and about the work carried out at CAT (Centre for Alternative Technology) I contacted CAT and discovered that the solution of borax used to moth proof the carded and scoured sheep fleece hanks was 10% - I know some on the forum were interested in the concentration.
Unfortunately CAT are not a source of such insulation as I had hoped and only sell via mail order Thermafleece. I did contact the Wool Marketing Board to see if I could purchase similar hanks but the very nice man said they didn't do this and the company which had supplied CAT with the hanks had gone out of business. He wasn't very convinced that spraying with borax would be very successful, feeling that every fibre would need coating to avoid a moth infestation.

 

[Lime]

He wasn't very convinced that spraying with borax would be very successful, feeling that every fibre would need coating to avoid a moth infestation.

I agree with him. The fear of moth and other creepy crawlies making it "home" after a period of time is what put me off using it in my loft.

 

[biffvernon]

Dunking in a bath of borax solution should be pretty effective. I gather that's what happens to Thermafleece. Borax has the advantages of being cheap, pretty harmless to people but very off-putting to insects.

 

[Lime]

I'm not so sure it is completely harmless to people:-

Toxicology
Possible risk that this may cause reproductive disorders, based on tests with laboratory animals. Eye and skin irritant. Harmful by ingestion. May be harmful by inhalation. Typical TLV/TWA 5 mg/m3.

Also (and this is what put me off the idea completely) borax is hygroscopic...It absorbs moisture from the air.
It gets damp in certain situations which are often met in the loft or under the floor.
http://www.borax.com/partners/distributors12.html
http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/BO/borax_decahydrate.html
http://www.mindat.org/min-722.html

 

[Nemesis]

Man made insulation isn't so good for health and the environment though...

Why not contact Thermafleece and talk about your worries?

http://www.secondnatureuk.com/info.htm

 

[NT]

I'm not so sure it is completely harmless to people:-

Toxicology
Possible risk that this may cause reproductive disorders, based on tests with laboratory animals. Eye and skin irritant. Harmful by ingestion. May be harmful by inhalation. Typical TLV/TWA 5 mg/m3.

This needs to be put in context to have any real meaning. Look up an MSDS for cinnamon and you'll see what I mean. Yes, the cinnamon we eat in cakes.


NT

 

[biffvernon]

I'm not so sure it is completely harmless to people:-

Toxicology
Possible risk that this may cause reproductive disorders, based on tests with laboratory animals. Eye and skin irritant. Harmful by ingestion. May be harmful by inhalation. Typical TLV/TWA 5 mg/m3.

Which is why I said it was pretty harmless to people. Other advantages are that there is a large natural supply of the stuff, it involves little processing or reliance on fossil fuels or other environmentally destructive practices.
I think that the hygroscopic property of borax is not an issue in the context of sheep's wool insulation. Only a tiny quantity of borax is involved and the wool itself is hygroscopic - an important feature of the the performance of wool insulation is its ability to absorb release water with changing relative humidity.

 

[Mark]

I have been watching a series on the tv channel France 5 which is covering the eco-refurb of property in Quebec. They have used an insulation which looks a bit like thermafleece but has feathers in it. Never seen or heard of this in the UK and there was no mention of brand. Anyone any thoughts? Maybe feather and wool mix ?

 

[Nemesis]

A quick google gives me a product which sounds likely - how's your French?



http://www.batipass.com/recherche-action-detail-fab-3227504901.html

and


http://www.travaux.com/produit/resu...qFxEHtX81pcq1U0wWc87yQP85oGq7y5J7EfTm3iRu1A==

 

[biffvernon]

Translation by Google:

BATIPLUMNAPTURAL SASHeat insulation and accoustics - Insulator Regulating natural insulator thermo-accoustics of moisture, made up of 70% of protected and labellized feathers, wool 10% of sheep and polyester 20% ensuring tying.
Respecting the requirements of impact strength and stability in time, this product is designed for labellized constructions High Environmental Quality (HQE). Fireproofed on request, it is declined in two solutions: for walls in 40, 60 and 80 mm thickness and roof in 60, 80, 100 and 150 mm thickness.
Markets concerned: housing, buildings industrial and commercial, office buildings, educational establishments, buildings sporting or cultural or of leisure, hotel trade.
Distribution: trade, direct sale, GSB, indicative GSA.Prix of sale to the professionals: 3,70 to 8 € HT/m ².
Go back to launching on the market: September 2002.

 

[Nemesis]

That's cheating!

 

[kim]

hi everyone , so how do i get samples of this insulation , bearing in mind i do not speak french.

:? kim

 

[Nemesis]

I doubt it's much of an improvement on Thermafleece, and that at least is made here. Transport costs etc will be much less than from abroad.

And you are helping keep Britain beautiful by using the wool from sheep which graze the uplands. Herdwicks in particular are a rare and precious survivor, without them the Lake District wouldn't be the place it is.



http://www.lakedistrictdesktops.com/imagev2048.php?532

http://www.lake-district.gov.uk/index/understanding/posters/poster2_farming.htm

http://www.visitcumbria.com/herdwick.htm

 

[kim]

yes i agree nemesis, just searching for the very best product for my renovation,i want to give it another 400 yrs.

:lol: kim

 

[Nemesis]

I reckon wool will outlast feathers.

Look at the fleeces which you find at roadsides of dead sheep... they remain for ages when the rest has rotted... roadkill birds don't last that long!

(I add I appreciate that not everyone finds dead sheep on their local roadsides...)

http://www.ruskinmuseum.com/herdwicks.htm

More totally gratuitous pics of Cumbria, to brighten people's day!

 

[kim]

cant say we find dead sheep by the roads where i live!!
I will take your word for it.

:? kim

 

[Nemesis]

Yes it is a bit - well, rural - round these parts. Three is a crowd.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/219463

These are local sheep: (just so it's not too off topic)



http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/161987

 

[Penners]

hi everyone , so how do i get samples of this insulation , bearing in mind i do not speak french.

:? kim

You could contact Saint Gobain in this country, and ask them.
http://www.saint-gobain.co.uk/

 

[Nemesis]

Wool is a renewable resource - made from grass and water...

Feathers I assume are a by-product of slaughter, and it may be that they come from battery hens.

It matters to me, up to others to decide if that matters to them.

 

[Mark]

Are there sheep in the uk that are kept only for the wool? living a long and happy life gambolling on the moor? Not producing a regular supply of lamb chops or anything?