Septic Tank

[Netty1960]

Hi

I'm hoping that somebody may be able to help with a problem we have relating to our septic tank which is situated across the village road and in a field, therefore the pipework runs under the road. This was done back in the 1930's and is on the deeds. The house itself is part timber frame dating back to 1750.

For the past 6 years we have been paying buildings and contents insurance and have stipulated that we need the pipework under the road and septic tank covered, in the event of something happening and having to dig the road up. This was through a broker, who assured us that it was covered. Each year when it came up for renewal we made sure it was included, however it is now due again and we have been told that it has never been covered and that there are no notes on file apart from the words 'septic tank'. Obviuously, we are going to take this further as we have been mis-sold a policy for which we have been paying higher premiums for 6 years! :x

Has anyone come across a septic tank outside their property boundry where they have needed to take out sperate insurance. Any help would be appreciated as we have felt sick to our stomach in the thought that something might have/may happen.

Thanks
Netty

 

[Tom]

My first thoughts on this are did you not check the policy? I'm not sure you would have had a leg to stand on in the event of a claim, as it's down to you to check that the cover provided is exactly what you need. Sorry, but that's how I understand it whether it goes through a broker or not.

Jaqy

 

[Me!]

Sorry I can't help with your specific problem, however I can offer a few general words of advice about insurance that do come from bitter experience, - Never, ever, EVER believe anything an insurance broker tells you unless it is in writing in the official paperwork.

 

[yamin]

OK, whats done is done, what a s****y ( :roll: ) situation for you! I know its buyer beware, but for what its worth, I do think you've been misled here, and it probably doesn't help to be told "you should have....."! I would be furious too! I too have doubts about how far yoyu can take this, but I'dn be tempted to start with a letter to insurance company, listing dates/interviews/names and absolutely anything that might support your case. Failing that, maybe approach the ombudsman. This may all come to nothing for you, but you equally have nothing to lose, right? I recall a recent, totally diff case, where man died, wife claimed insurance, turned out he hadn't declared himself a smoker, - it had only been for a brief time, but made his policy null and void, in spite of the fact that his death was nothing to do with smoking. Although harsh, this is totally understandable, if frustrating (and a whole new discussion re medical notes!!) - anyway, my point is that in the end the insurance company did pay out a proportion of the claim, even though legally the woman had no legto stand on. So I really think its worth pursuing.....

Good luck, and sorry you're in this situation........

 

[Penners]

Netty - I'm a bit concerned as to whether, in your situation, any insurance would be very satisfactory. Considering the type of event that you're insuring against - i.e. digging up the road, I'm trying to imagine the circumstances under which this would become necessary.

I presume the principal risk is something like subsidence, causing the pipe to break. But I wonder whether an insurance company would be prepared to insure against this, considering that the land through which the pipe flows is not yours - and you therefore have no control over its upkeep.

I'm speaking from a position of complete ignorance - I have no experience of your situation at all and I'm certainly no expert on insurance. However, if it were my property, I think I would try to ensure that (a) I got to speak to the insurer first-hand, rather than through a broker, and (b) I got the particular risk and cover written into the policy.

Who were you insured with? Have you spoken to NFU Mutual? They tend to have much more experience of insuring old/country properties than your average online insurer, and they will probably send an agent out to talk to you and look at the situation for himself.

And by the way, I agree with yamin. You should be seeking redress for the excess premiums that you've been paying, while not receiving the agreed cover. I would demand a refund from the broker, and if you don't get it, then start threatening solicitors, ombudsman, etc.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

In the event something happens to pipework under road, would you be able to resite a new septic tank elsewhere on your land this side of the road? OK, you have that expense - but probably not too great.

 

[Penners]

have that expense - but probably not too great.

A somewhat subjective term, FW. Given the cost of a modern digester - maybe in the region of £5k, plus all the rerouting of pipes, soakaways, etc, I suspect Netty could be looking at a figure approaching £10,000.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

:shock: best get the insurance sorted then!

Still, the cost of digging up the road is probably greater... but I'm struggling to think of things that could happen to those pipes after all this time that are not linked to a catastrophic failure of the road that would bring Highways in to rectify anyway.

Cue other posters with a long list of spetic-tank-pipes-under-roads horror stories... :wink:

 

[Moo]

Were you paying your premiums direct to the insurance company, or via the broker?
If it was the former, surely the insurance company was remiss in accepting them when it must/should have known that they were in excess of what you should have been paying for that particular policy.
If it was via the broker, was he passing it all to the insurance company, or could it be that he was pocketing the difference?

 

[Flyfisher]

I'd echo all of the above; don't trust anything not in writing and make an official complaint anway, through the ombudsman if necessary.

However, that's really an aside to the main issue and I tend to share Penners' concern about whether this is really an (economically) insurable risk in the first place. Even ignoring the complication of the public road, would septic tanks and associated pipework be normally covered by household buildings insurance? I'd be particularly wary of any 'wear-and-tear' smallprint whereby the insurance co decides that any fault is due to 'natural age-related deterioration'. I would also recommend talking to NFU as they seem to be clued-up about unusual and land-related risks.

As for digging up the road to repair the pipes, this may not actually be necessary. When we had mains gas connected, the gas people used a 'mole' device powered by compressed air to 'burrow' under the roadway, which avoided much disruption and repair costs and just needed two holes dug each side of the road. I don't know about size and distance limitations for such a technique but it might be worth trying to find a local company that could do such works and perhaps get an estimate of what the cost might be for a new pipe, should it ever be required.

 

[Pford75]

I'm currently going throught the FOS re: my insurance claim. The process is straightforward and if you believe you have been mis-sold or lied to, then you can register a complaint with the FOS (but only after you have exhausted the brokers complaints process).

We have a similar arrangement with pipes etc and do not have a separate policy. However, it is difficult to imagine a situation where we could claim for damage to these pipes (since collapse etc. is more likely to be 'gradually operating cause' and therefore not covered by any policy).

 

[Netty1960]

Thank you everyone for your replies, they have been most helpful. There are a number of rental properties that are in the same situation belonging to the estate, so we are going to the estate office in the morning to see, what, if anything is in place (Trust us to be the only people in the village who own a timber framed house :roll: ). Also, the village now benefits from a by-pass, therefore the amount of traffic is far less than it used to be and doesn't have anywhere near the number of trucks and lorries going past.

Re: insurance we are most certainly going to take it further with the company as we feel we have been paying over the odds for the policy anyway, having looked at like for like policies.

Once again, guys, thanks for the response and comments

 

[Penners]

Trust us to be the only people in the village who own a timber framed house

In my book, that makes you the lucky ones.

 

[Anita]

I am so pleased that this issue has been raised - as I am sure that we have never stipulated to our insurers that our septic tank pipes run under our neighbours land (and a conservatory has now been built over top of them), and the tank itself is in our neighbours garden. We are responsible for making good after any repairs - so must hurry home from work tonight and check policy!

 

[bower1]

I'd tend to go along with the idea that it might not be insured anyway, whether on your land or not. If other parts of your house had a gradual failure, they are often not insured. What the insurance often covers is damage caused by the failure (e.g burst pipes, oil leaks etc) rather than the failure itself. I have the drain running under my living room floor. Is that covered by insurance if the pipe burst? No idea actually.

But I have been in your situation with house one side of the road and septic tank on the other. I fortunately didn't have to dig up the road for that, but we did have the road dug up for mains water connections, and although expensive (around £2000) it was nowhere near the £10000 suggested. Admittedly that didn't include the road closure as the local council had already closed it for some resurfacing, but I seem to think that was around £800.

 

[chuckey]

In about 1972 a friend of mine had a bill for £1100 for the repair of his sewer pipe. It seems that the 50Yards or so of it that ran under the verge( in front of other properties) before it joined the "main" sewerage pipe, actually belonged to him. It was suspected that lorries parking on the verge caused the problem. This was not brought to his attention when he bought the house and it was a relatively new one (<5 years old?). So the problem might be endemic!
Frank