Selling a Grade 2 Listed Building

[jtho]

My partner and I are currently selling our end terraced house which is Grade II listed. When we bought the property over two and a half years ago we were never made aware via our solicitors, estate agents or bank that it was Grade II listed. One day I noticed individual taking photos outside of our house. I approached the gentleman in question and asked what he was doing. He told me that due to the fact that the house was listed the government were collating pictures of all listed buildings in the country and showing them on a website. I immediately looked through our title deeds and so fourth and noticed that the property had been listed for several years. Why did the solicitor not pick up on this? After that I did a little bit of research on listed buildings and found that installing a damp course would require planning permission. When we bought the property our survey showed that a damp course was required. The bank retained around £3000 for the works to be carried out otherwise we would not be able to buy the house as they would not lend us the money. We have come to a point were we are selling the house and recently received a letter from our buyers solicitors requesting a copy of the planning permission for the new installation of the damp course. Obviously we have no planning permission for the works carried out over two years ago. I would like to know were we stand as the research I have gathered puts us in what I believe to be a difficult position as. And due to the fact that when we purchased the property we were never told that it was a Grade II listed building. Should the either the bank, solicitor, or surveyor noticed this, or even the builder carrying out the works notified us and will it effect us selling the house now?

 

[Lime]

When looking at property in estate agents the first or second phrase I see in their spiel is "a grade II listed building.....".
It is difficult to believe that you were unaware, however I have no reason to disbelieve you, so I accept what you say.

When you bought the property you were responsible for the purchase and for what you bought.
The solicitor should have discussed the position you were in however and I'm surprised that no discussion took place at some time during the purchase.
I think they should have advised you that buying a listed building brings with it extra responsibilities (as you have now discovered).

Why did you not pick this up with your solicitor when you found out about it?

The bank was lending you money and they would have expected you to inform them of the listing and not the other way round.
The surveyor is only examining the structure when surveying and, if unaware of the listing, could not be expected to know of it.
The builder was following your instructions and why should they be aware of the listing either?

As it is you are responsible for the work having been done without planning permission.

The only way this sale can go ahead is if the new purchaser is prepared to buy your property without planning permission or if you now obtain retrospective permission before the sale.

It is a difficult position you find yourself in and you need to seek advice either from your solicitor selling your house or the Citizen's Advice Bureau.

 

[Nemesis]

Installing a DPC wouldn't require planning permission - it would at most require LBC - listed building consent.

While installing a DPC retrospectively isn't always a great idea in any building, in a listed building it can mean the loss of historic fabric. It may however not, it depends on the building. It's possible that nothing too historic was damaged in its installation. Many thousands of listed buildings will have had DPC's fitted in the past. How effective they are is a matter for some doubt, but that's not the issue here.

It's very unfortunate that the solicitor who did the conveyancing managed to miss the fact the building is listed, but I think that such a period of time has now elapsed that I doubt much can be done about that, although you can try - I think the timescale may be three years for taking any action against loss caused by failure to spot something when doing conveyancing.

I assume the photo was being taken for the Images of England website:

http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk

It is certainly the case that action can be taken against any breach of LBC and there is no time limit, but unless significant features of the building were destroyed in the process I can't see any local authority taking action here, as clearly what has now been done cannot be undone. Let's hope you haven't done other things to the building which shouldn't have been done without LBC (new windows??).

In other circumstances you could buy insurance to cover any perceived action, but in the case of failure to get LBC I think it's not as straightforward as it is a breach of law, and there is no time limit. You could try.

So in the first instance it may be worth pointing out to the solicitor than planning permission was not required for the DPC as it's not a planning matter, and see what happens.

You could also contact the local authority Conservation Officer and be honest and ask if in the circumstances he or she would have refused LBC and what can now be done. Retrospective permission may be applied for but as this can't be undone it' is, as you say, rather unfortunate that it's all happened. The CO may be kind and tell you in writing that no action will be taken and that would be the best outcome, but it may all take time.

 

[Flyfisher]

Ultimately, you are legally responsible for the property but if you have acted on the basis of unsound legal advice then, in theory, you should have some recourse to your advisor. You are not deemed to be an expert in such areas, which is why you pay for expert advice. If you subsequently suffer a loss due to bad or inaccurate advice then you can sue to recover those losses. But behind that fine and noble principle will be a minefield of issues to negotiate, the first being able to prove that you really did not know about the listing status of the property. I suspect that will be very difficult.

If you still have all the original purchase correspondence, now would be a good time to read it carefully to confirm that you really were not informed about the listing status. If this is the case then I would go back to the original solicitor and discuss your predicament.

and will it effect us selling the house now?

I'm afraid so, unless you can find someone willing to ignore the issue and take on any subsequent liability. And assuming you could live with with that.

I suspect that, ultimately, you'll have to 'come clean' and discuss the matter with the local conservation officer. I can't see any other way that would actually guarantee a final resolution - whatever it might be.

 

[Nemesis]

It may delay the sale, I don't think that this position is irrecoverable.

I suspect the local authority will take the pragmatic approach, but it is something to get sorted out now.

Any liability any future purchaser would have would be to re-instate any lost features deemed to have affected the character of the building adversely, in the unlikely case of enforcement action being brought. I say unlikely as it could be argued that there was some justification for the installation of the DPC.

Waste of cash IMHO in so many cases but really too late now that it has been installed!

 

[Penners]

It's extremely unusual for an estate agent not to tell you that an offered property is listed. They usually cover themselves very clearly on that. Have you checked back on the property details document that they gave you, just to be sure that it isn't mentioned somewhere?

However, if they definitely didn't tell you, then I suspect that they will have some kind of get-out on the situation - probably that the vendor didn't tell them.

I'm no expert, but I suspect that if you're looking to blame somebody, the best bet is probably the solicitor who did the conveyancing for you. But even there, it would be advisable to check back meticulously on their paperwork before you kick up a fuss, just to be sure you don't get egg on your face.

 

[middi]

I would have thought that if one pays solicitors for what they call " searches" good money, then they should find and disclose any particulars which one should he aware of before proceding with any purchase.

That is the whole point of the exercise isn't it ?.

If you cannot find any written evidence of the listing in any of their dealings with the purchase, I would want to know why not, or if someone has been mislead by mistake.

As to what you do about it I am not sure, exept ask for your money back :roll:

I also wonder if the previous owners were aware of the listing .

 

[dandrew]

I had a similar experience with my solicitor.
I bought a traditional tenement flat in Glasgow through a reputable solicitor who did the searches, and the searches stated that the property was not listed. After about a year in the property a neighbour mentioned that the whole terrace was listed, and sure enough 5 minutes on Historic Scotland's website confirmed that it had been listed since the 1970's, having being designed by Alexander (Greek) Thomson.

Fortunately the listing was only grade B (almost grade II in England), which mean't that as long as I didn't do anything to the exterior no LBC was required.

The solicitor was horrified to hear about the duff info from the search company, but as there was no harm done no further action was required. However, if you have suffered a loss because of inadequate advice, you should complain in writing to the solicitor. The Law Society are quite helpful in providing a pro-forma on how to do this, and all solicitors are required to have an in-house complaints system for resolving problems. If you exhaust this process and are still not satisfied you can then go through the Law Society's complaints procedure.

 

[Nemesis]

I don't know about Scotland, but in England the listing covers all the building, including the interior...

 

[ajbaker]

Double post.

 

[ajbaker]

Do contact your previous solicitor. They really should have noticed it was a listed building and subsequently informed you. Nobody else, as far as I am aware, is responsible for informing you. However, any action you take against your previous solicitor should not interfere with the sale of your house now.

Your options regarding the pending sale of your house are limited. Inform you purchasers solicitors that planning permission is not required. Contact your conservation officer and discuss the situation. Applying for retrospective Listed Consent is the most likely recommendation and bar anything really special about your house, I really cannot see why it would not be granted. Unfortunately I would imagine it quite likely you prospective buyer will want to wait until this is granted.

Are you using the same solicitor to sell as you did to buy? That would make things interesting!

 

[Lime]

Are you using the same solicitor to sell as you did to buy? That would make things interesting!

Yes, it would indeed!