Scullery window question.

[plasticpigeon]

Hello people,

I have another window question. In my kitchen/scullery I have a larder with a small casement, and in the main room, a large sash and a slightly larger casement on the back wall next to the chimney breast. The sash and larder casement are set back from the face of the outside wall by a 1/2 brick, ie around 4 1/4 inches, and the larder casement is definitely original. However the rear casement is flush with the wall. I believe the rear casement has the original opening casement which contains the glass as it is nicely made and has rolled or at least wobbly glass in it, but i am certain that the fixed frame is not original as it is of vary scrappy construction (the stops are just scotia beads nailed badly on and the architrave around the edge doesn't match with anywhere else). Also the blue bricks which would have made a cill are also flush with the wall, a wooden cill has been inserted and it is all clagged up with cement. I wish to remake the fixed frame, but I do not know whether I should make it flush with the wall or set back by 1/2 brick like all other windows. When the windows are set back from the outside, there is no cill on the inside, and I imagine in a kitchen/scullery it would be useful to have a cill inside to put things on but I am more interested in getting it correct. Does anyone have experience or knowledge of the conventions of windows in a scullery???

Here are some pics

 

[Penners]

I don't think there are any real rules to this.

Personally I would favour setting the window back into the reveal somewhat, to provide it with some protection from the weather. I reckon a frame flush with the outside face of the brickwork definitely risks more water penetration between the frame and the bricks.

Just be sure that the exterior sill has a reasonable fall on it, to allow water to flow away from the window. The sill should also project proud of the wall and have a drip groove on its underside.

If this arrangement negates the possibility of an interior window-sill, is that really a problem? In a scullery or kitchen you can always hang shelves.

 

[biffvernon]

interior window-sill,

Sometimes called a 'window board' to avoid confusion with the 'sill' or 'cill', which could be the bottom piece of the frame, whereas the board is an add-on.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I agree I think I shall set it back in its reveal. Unfortunately the brickwork will have to be straightened up too. Thanks I shall call it a window board from now on!

 

[CliffordPope]

Do you mean scullery, or pantry, larder or dairy?
Our house originally had a cold room off the kitchen, not sure which you would call it, with slate slabs and iron hooks on the ceiling. The windows were flush with the outside wall, but originally were mesh grills, not glazed. There were wooden shutters on the inside.

 

[plasticpigeon]

We have 3 rooms downstairs, I guess they would be called a parlour at the front, a kitchen in the middle and a scullery, perhaps at the back in the back addition. The middle room (perhaps kitchen) has a wooden floor and is a thoroughfare from the front hall to the back room (perhaps scullery) which has a quarry tiled floor. Within the back room with quarry tiles is a pantry which is basically a small room within the larger room but it is original to the house and has a nice wooden built in cupboard and brick partition walls. The total floor area of the back room is around 16ft by 9ft which I thought was quite big for a scullery hence I called it kitchen scullery as I don't know better. It would certainly be called a kitchen in today's vernacular. If I am not using correct terminology then please let me know!!!

 

[JoceAndChris]

That all sounds right to me. FWIW our Victorian scullery window has no sill. Hooks and shelves were used plentifully.

 

[Feltwell]

If I am not using correct terminology then please let me know!!!

To me the pantry is where food was stored, and the scullery was where things were washed - clothes certainly, and perhaps food preparation although most of that would be in the kitchen. The smaller and more modest the house the more multi-purpose a room would be, to the extent where in a humble dwelling there may be no scullery or pantry and only a small kitchen where all food was prepared and eaten, washing done of both clothes and people, etc.

However I am no expert on domestic history so if anyone knows more please do say!

 

[Moo]

What's the difference between a pantry and a larder?

 

[Feltwell]

I suspect it's the same as the difference between front room and parlour, living room and lounge, etc - to some it's the same and to others it's different, depending on where you are in the country and how big your house is - e.g. some larger houses may have what the owner calls a living room and a seperate lounge. To me a pantry and a larder is the same thing, a large cupboard or small room where food is kept.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Thank you Wikipedia:
In a late medieval house, there were separate rooms for the various service functions and food storage. A pantry was where bread was kept and food preparation associated with it done. The head of the office responsible for this room was referred to as a pantler. There were similar rooms for storage of bacon and other meats (larder), alcoholic beverages (buttery) known for the "butts" of barrels stored there, and cooking (kitchen).

By the Victorian era, large houses and estates in Britain maintained the use of separate rooms, each one dedicated to a distinct stage of food preparation and clean up. The kitchen was for cooking, while food storage was done in a storeroom. Food preparation before cooking was done in a larder, and dishwashing was done in a scullery or pantry, "depending on the type of dish and level of dirt". Since the scullery was the room with running water, it had a sink, and it was where the messiest food preparation took place, such as cleaning fish and cutting raw meat. The pantry was where tableware was stored, such as china, glassware and silverware. If the pantry had a sink for washing tableware, it was a wooden sink lined with lead, to prevent chipping the china and glassware while they were washed. In some middle-class houses, the larder, pantry and storeroom might simply be large wooden cupboards, each with its exclusive purpose.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Tsk. You'd think a proper paid up Conservation Occifer with O-lvels and everything would know these things without having to look it up on Wikipedia! :roll: :wink:

 

[plasticpigeon]

Hmm, well in my humble abode, I think it is likely that both washing and food prep happened in the same back room so maybe it is a kitchen/scullery/larder all in one room.

 

[LadyArowana]

Hmm, well in my humble abode, I think it is likely that both washing and food prep happened in the same back room so maybe it is a kitchen/scullery/larder all in one room.

In our Edwardian mansion block the original layout had a small room beside the kitchen that had a door opening onto a tiny balcony in the internal light well. In our apartment this room had been converted and there was no longer any external access, but the balcony remained visible and I had always thought it extremely odd. Unlike our external balcony it was too tiny to sit on and has no view at all. One of the older residents solved the mystery for me though, she explained that it was where the coal/ logs etc were hauled up when people still had open fireplaces. When we did the renovation work the electrician always referred to it as the scullery ( we put the kitchen back in the correct place ), the builder called it the utility room ( because the washing machine was plumbed in there ), and I called it the powder room ( because it is has toilet and hand basin for visitors ). We took much delight in confusing the horrible managing agent when he came to the site by all using our respective names for the same room.

 

[Penners]

A pantry was where bread was kept ...There were similar rooms for storage of bacon and other meats (larder)

Aha! The French for bread is "pain" and the (now slightly dated) French for bacon is "lard"...

...as any fule no.

Isn't etymology great?