countrycott
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Has anyone any experience in saving (or trying to save) a listed building under threat?
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Schoolmarm
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Aha you need Ev right now. She would give you all the links and tell you what to do. 
Flyfisher
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English Heritage might be a good place to start: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.19074
Gareth Hughes
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countrycott said:
Quite a few of us have - could you provide some more details?
Jon Maine
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Personally I have taken two buildings off the "at risk register" otherwise known as BAR there are plenty of others here who either have or are doing the same sort of thing. As Gareth says more details so appropriate advice can be given would help.
Penners
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As Gareth says, quite a few of us have done this in some form or another. What do you want to know?countrycott said:
countrycott
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Ok, I'm worried about a C15/C16/C17 (depending which info you read) jettied and gabled timber framed building, that has been rundown over the last few years and it has now been neglected for some time, and is now up for sale, with apparently no takers...Its been empty all over the Winter, with rumours of the inside floors rotting and falling into the cellars etc.
Have contacted a councillor and he says they have repeatedly issued upkeep notices to the owners, with nothing much being done. When it became empty last year the roof was stripped of its lead, and so roof tiles came off, allowing the weather in, this was eventually patched up but thats all.
I feel it really needs to be rescued and I'm further worried as from my initial investigations, I understand that this is the 'test' and if it doesn't sell, this could sort of prove it is of no use to anyone, and it will end up getting into such a state that it will be facing demolition, if it winds up being deemed unsafe.
I have some hope as it is,
1) In a Conservation area
2) Listed, but only GII.
I've made an enquiry to the local council this week, and will be chasing the CO if I don't hear anything soon.
I have yet to contact the local history society to see what they know or if they care....
I will contact SPAB and Save Britains Heritage to get it onto an at risk list. I don't want to turn into the village busybody, but someone's gotta do something...
It looks so sad and undignified being boarded up and has been graffitied as well.
Its actually the oldest building in our village apart from the church and is/was important in the history of the village.
It was a manor house, then a pub for many years, but has been rather unsuccessfull over the last 5 years or so, and I don't think has any chance of opening as a pub again, our village is already supporting 3 pubs...thats about all we can drink in these hard times!
Have contacted a councillor and he says they have repeatedly issued upkeep notices to the owners, with nothing much being done. When it became empty last year the roof was stripped of its lead, and so roof tiles came off, allowing the weather in, this was eventually patched up but thats all.
I feel it really needs to be rescued and I'm further worried as from my initial investigations, I understand that this is the 'test' and if it doesn't sell, this could sort of prove it is of no use to anyone, and it will end up getting into such a state that it will be facing demolition, if it winds up being deemed unsafe.
I have some hope as it is,
1) In a Conservation area
2) Listed, but only GII.
I've made an enquiry to the local council this week, and will be chasing the CO if I don't hear anything soon.
I have yet to contact the local history society to see what they know or if they care....
I will contact SPAB and Save Britains Heritage to get it onto an at risk list. I don't want to turn into the village busybody, but someone's gotta do something...
It looks so sad and undignified being boarded up and has been graffitied as well.
Its actually the oldest building in our village apart from the church and is/was important in the history of the village.
It was a manor house, then a pub for many years, but has been rather unsuccessfull over the last 5 years or so, and I don't think has any chance of opening as a pub again, our village is already supporting 3 pubs...thats about all we can drink in these hard times!
Gareth Hughes
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I realise you may not want to give too much away, but could you let us know where it is? (PM me if you prefer)
Local Authorities can vary enormously in how seriously they take this sort of thing.
It could, however, be a good candidate for SAVE's "Building of the Month" - and they're always looking for them. SPAB too should be able to help, if only by making the council aware that they're onto it.
As for the "sale" test, that would only be valid if the priced expected took its condition and potential fully into account.
Local Authorities can vary enormously in how seriously they take this sort of thing.
It could, however, be a good candidate for SAVE's "Building of the Month" - and they're always looking for them. SPAB too should be able to help, if only by making the council aware that they're onto it.
As for the "sale" test, that would only be valid if the priced expected took its condition and potential fully into account.
countrycott
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Gareth Hughes said:
Hi Gareth, ....I fear this could be the case here...
thanks for your input, will PM you later on.
Jon Maine
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Contacting Spab and Save is sensible.
Can you post a picture or two? Or look it up on Images of England and put the link up. And estate agents listing? There may be someone here who could be interested.
Sadly the local authority will not have the will to compulsory purchase unless they have a buyer in place in my experience so probably not an imminent option. Do however keep in regular contact with your co about it especially if it looks like rapid deterioration has occured or more theft or vandalism.
Can you post a picture or two? Or look it up on Images of England and put the link up. And estate agents listing? There may be someone here who could be interested.
Sadly the local authority will not have the will to compulsory purchase unless they have a buyer in place in my experience so probably not an imminent option. Do however keep in regular contact with your co about it especially if it looks like rapid deterioration has occured or more theft or vandalism.
Gareth Hughes
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countrycott said:
Oh God, I hope it's not one of mine...
countrycott
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Gareth - Nope, not your neck of the woods...and why? am I scaring you?
Jon - Thanks, busy drafting emails to SPAB & SAVE right now.
Jon - Thanks, busy drafting emails to SPAB & SAVE right now.
Gareth Hughes
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No, I just couldn't recall one that fitted all of your description.
Jon Maine
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Am glad to hear its not one of yours Gareth, so you don't have to sit in the corner with the naughty hat on!!
Penners
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Well, good for you. I wish you the best of luck in saving the building.countrycott said:
I always find it staggering that the owners of certain buildings will allow them simply to crumble away. Who has so much money that they can afford to allow several hundreds of thousands of pounds to just sit and rot? :?
Jon Maine
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Penners said:
We know people sadly often look at the cleared site development value and if the building fell down.....
Sad but true we here on this forum think at the other end of the scale but whether it is neglect causing demolition by decay or a midnight arsonist the end result is the same although hopefully with the former a good old village busy body :wink: stirring up the CO and press could make the difference.
Penners
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Well yes, and in that connection I can understand (although not condone) the midnight arsonist or the covert bulldozerist. There's probably a quick buck to be made.Jon Maine said:
But the ones that really puzzle me are the properties that we've all seen, sitting there for y-e-a-r-s on end, just gradually crumbling away. I find it difficult to believe that they're part of someone's plan to develop the plot.
Stephen
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Gareth can advise better on this, but the Council does have various powers. The problem is that they will vary as to how keen they are to exercise them, mainly because of the cost to them. You should of course continue to put pressure on the Council to do something.
However, there are other possibilities. If a group of you feel strong enough you could set up a small Building Preservation Trust. You could investigate sources of finance (e.g. Architectural Heritage Fund - AHF) and then approach the Council. If the Council know that there is someone willing and able to take over the building they might then be more willing to take action. Ultimately this could include compulsory purchase by the Council with a back-to-back sale to the BPT. This way the Council know they will not be out of pocket. Unfortunately these matters take time (I am involved in just such a scheme and it has taken 4-5 years).
It may be a long shot, but such an idea might work in extreme cases.
Stephen
However, there are other possibilities. If a group of you feel strong enough you could set up a small Building Preservation Trust. You could investigate sources of finance (e.g. Architectural Heritage Fund - AHF) and then approach the Council. If the Council know that there is someone willing and able to take over the building they might then be more willing to take action. Ultimately this could include compulsory purchase by the Council with a back-to-back sale to the BPT. This way the Council know they will not be out of pocket. Unfortunately these matters take time (I am involved in just such a scheme and it has taken 4-5 years).
It may be a long shot, but such an idea might work in extreme cases.
Stephen
Gareth Hughes
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Thanks to Countrycott and PMs I have a bit more info on this particular case. As the continued use as a pub may be a forlorn hope, the half acre site (on which the building sits slightly awkwardly) may be being seen as the true "value", which in turn has led to an overoptimistic price being asked. A lot will depend on the Local Authority's attitude, unless there's a real local groundswell of opinion in favour of a more conservationist, but less profitable, form of development.
It shouldn't be that way, but it often is.
It shouldn't be that way, but it often is.
Gervase
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Stephen's right - set up a Building Preservation Trust. Doing that will make the council smile on you, because few local authorities are willing to take on a fight for a building at risk if they face the prospect of being responsible for it in perpetuity or feel that their actions will be unappreciated. A BPT can work with the council to apply pressure and to achieve results in a way that the council acting alone will never achieve.
Collar your local councillor or conservation officer and discuss the case with him or her as soon as possible. Ideally collar both of them.
Assess if there is a possibility of the council taking action under S77 of the Building Act - which requires the owner to make safe a dangerous building. If the owner refuses, the council can take action under S78.
Under S54 of the Listed Buildings Act, the council can consider carrying out urgent repairs itself, or (under s56) actually acquiring the building. Get your CO to look at WO Circ 61/96, paras 130-132. Work under S54 is restricted to emergency repairs to parts of the building not in use, but must be carried out to an adequate and appropriate standard, and the owner can then be billed.
You could also press for action under S215 of the Town and Country Planning Act, whereby the council specifies steps to be taken and a time limit. Non compliance by the owner is a criminal offence.
There is also S89(2) of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act - a little-used power but an effective one. The authority may carry out works at its own expense to reclaim or improve buildings that are 'derelict, neglected or unsightly'. This act applies in urban sites and those outside the national parks.
Collar your local councillor or conservation officer and discuss the case with him or her as soon as possible. Ideally collar both of them.
Assess if there is a possibility of the council taking action under S77 of the Building Act - which requires the owner to make safe a dangerous building. If the owner refuses, the council can take action under S78.
Under S54 of the Listed Buildings Act, the council can consider carrying out urgent repairs itself, or (under s56) actually acquiring the building. Get your CO to look at WO Circ 61/96, paras 130-132. Work under S54 is restricted to emergency repairs to parts of the building not in use, but must be carried out to an adequate and appropriate standard, and the owner can then be billed.
You could also press for action under S215 of the Town and Country Planning Act, whereby the council specifies steps to be taken and a time limit. Non compliance by the owner is a criminal offence.
There is also S89(2) of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act - a little-used power but an effective one. The authority may carry out works at its own expense to reclaim or improve buildings that are 'derelict, neglected or unsightly'. This act applies in urban sites and those outside the national parks.