Saturated lime wall

[Sollys]

Major penetrating damp problems led us to get a new chimney fitted ( all sound) and have cement mortar removed and replaced with lime mortar on our SW facing gable wall. After spending thousands of £’s the problem is worse than ever with part of ceiling down in a window bay and damp spreading everywhere every time we have SW rain (often in Cornwall)

builder now back out and wants to spray a silicone sealant onto the wall. Any guidance please ? It feels like we are going backwards and will possibly trap damp in wall but any enter options to stop ingress of water. Considering tile hanging but expensive - any guarantees and we have been advised we should seal wall first?.

Help!,,

 

[Stonehouse]

Saturated lime wall

Hi all Has anyone experienced a saturated lime wall? We’re lime outside as we removed all the cement and got battered by a storm with 80mph winds and rain. We have very old lime plaster inside but it has been painted over in plastic paint (it was like this when we purchased it) and has...

www.periodproperty.co.uk

 

[elizabeth]

Hello Sollys, sorry to read of your situation. It’s frustrating for you when you have done the right thing.
We had our chimney siliconed and it seemed to work straight away. Having said that though we had our thatch done at the same time and the heavy rain was soaking from our chimney onto our walls. We weren’t sure if the man who fitted the new lead had failed to push the lead down enough around the thatch or if the lime mortar and bricks really were getting saturated. Either way the thatcher and the lead man came back and painted on a silicone.
The thread below lists someone who experienced the same.
Also maybe worth watching on YouTube a young man who works with lime and has tackled a big old house in Scotland - driving rain. He is D Porter
Hope this helps inform you.

Lime mortar pointing - water penetration

A few years ago our house was suffering from damp, clearly resulting from faulty cement rendering, which was bowing away from the walls and falling off in sheets. So at some expense we had all that hacked off, and the stone walls repointed using lime mortar. It looked lovely, now highlighting...

www.periodproperty.co.uk

 

[Old School]

Hi Sollys, I have been battling this issue in Cornwall for the past ten years, thankfully got past the five buckets in the bedroom catching the deluge, removed cement pointing replaced with lime outside, removed plasterboarding dry (ha!) lining and insulation replaced with lime render inside and it's still happening, we are still moving out of our bedroom due to damp and horrific black mould growth every winter, our house is twin skinned wall construction with rubble infill, I believe decades of no maintenance (not by us) have enabled water ingress into the double skin which has washed away the rubble in fill creating voids and consequent reduction in the wall being able to deal with Cornish weather, Beeck SP Plus applied without much real success, our Victorian architect created some features which have not helped either, parapets to both front gables which terminate in flat granite corbels, we have no gutters at the front and scant overhang. If you can tile hang, which very sadly we can't due to lack of overhang and mullion windows etc etc I would say that is your vernacular best bet! Good luck, it's soul destroying isn't it.

 

[Sollys]

Thanks for your response and yes it has been soul destroying! It has been a long journey and we have learnt a lot (at cost). Everyone has a different opinion and finding the "expert" tradesmen is so difficult. I have lost count of the builders we have talked to. Just trying to find the right solution so we can enjoy living in this lovely cottage in this lovely village!.

 

[Sollys]

Hello Sollys, sorry to read of your situation. It’s frustrating for you when you have done the right thing.
We had our chimney siliconed and it seemed to work straight away. Having said that though we had our thatch done at the same time and the heavy rain was soaking from our chimney onto our walls. We weren’t sure if the man who fitted the new lead had failed to push the lead down enough around the thatch or if the lime mortar and bricks really were getting saturated. Either way the thatcher and the lead man came back and painted on a silicone.
The thread below lists someone who experienced the same.
Also maybe worth watching on YouTube a young man who works with lime and has tackled a big old house in Scotland - driving rain. He is D Porter
Hope this helps inform you.

Lime mortar pointing - water penetration

A few years ago our house was suffering from damp, clearly resulting from faulty cement rendering, which was bowing away from the walls and falling off in sheets. So at some expense we had all that hacked off, and the stone walls repointed using lime mortar. It looked lovely, now highlighting...

www.periodproperty.co.uk

Thanks Elizabeth - arming ourselves with as much information as possible. Frustrating no one told us Lime mortar was not waterproof (feeling rather stupid - breathable!!) - so now need to identify phase 2!

 

[malcolm]

My father phoned this afternoon with much the same issue. Stone farmhouse in Scotland that I think has been repointed in cement. He's renting it out and the tenant wants to paint the outsides of the wall with silicone as there are a couple of damp patches inside.

The main worry about waterproofing walls on the outside of the house is that the waterproofing will stop water getting in in some circumstances. But waterproofing will also stop the water from getting out. Water evaporating from the walls to the outside is how the walls stay dry. Should the issue not be permeability of mortar, but rather cracks, water coming down chimneys, gaps around windows then the water will still find it's way in but might have more trouble finding a way out again.

Of course in Scotland the wind blows sideways and it rains every day. That's why I moved to the South East of England. Down here there is absolutely no reason why lime mortar and bricks shouldn't give you really dry walls. It's been wet and blowy this winter but no troubles inside and the walls will dry again so I can get my U value back. I lived in a stone farmhouse and stone pointed in cement definitely causes issues after a little movement cracks the mortar joints. We also had water blowing through the wall when the wind was bad and dripping onto the window sill. That one was cement and wood in a badly designed and installed window that had shrunk.

My advice to my father was let me have a look when I'm next up there but appreciate that doesn't help anyone else.

Mostly traditionally built buildings worked when they were built else they wouldn't have been built like that in the first place. They took advantage of lime and such as a means to keep the walls dry by evaporation to outside. These days most trades are inexperienced in older buildings and materials and you get problems. Owners have to go outside and look for gaps and cracks and go through the horrible logic puzzle to figure out where the water is getting in while trying to maintain a way for water to evaporate away on sunny says so it's not twice as bad next year.

 

[malcolm]

If you post photos of the damp inside and photos of the house outside and indicate where on the outside corresponds to the damp problems we might spot something.

 

[saraheamorrison]

If you use tradespeople make sure they have a level 3 Qualification in repairing and maintaining traditional buildings pre1919. I studied this as part of my retraining to be a lime plasterer. It means they understand how the houses work, what materials work where and who needs to be involved in the repair work. There are way too many people that don't understand or know how to fix part of the problem. The more informed homeowners are the better as I hate seeing people ripped off. This forum is brilliant for helping and I've read some great answers....compared to the keyboard warriors on FB.

 

[Sollys]

If you use tradespeople make sure they have a level 3 Qualification in repairing and maintaining traditional buildings pre1919. I studied this as part of my retraining to be a lime plasterer. It means they understand how the houses work, what materials work where and who needs to be involved in the repair work. There are way too many people that don't understand or know how to fix part of the problem. The more informed homeowners are the better as I hate seeing people ripped off. This forum is brilliant for helping and I've read some great answers....compared to the keyboard warriors on FB.

Thank you Sarah I had never heard of that and a key problem is knowing if builders have the right experience. I wish you luck in your new career - you should have plenty of work!

 

[Sollys]

My father phoned this afternoon with much the same issue. Stone farmhouse in Scotland that I think has been repointed in cement. He's renting it out and the tenant wants to paint the outsides of the wall with silicone as there are a couple of damp patches inside.

The main worry about waterproofing walls on the outside of the house is that the waterproofing will stop water getting in in some circumstances. But waterproofing will also stop the water from getting out. Water evaporating from the walls to the outside is how the walls stay dry. Should the issue not be permeability of mortar, but rather cracks, water coming down chimneys, gaps around windows then the water will still find it's way in but might have more trouble finding a way out again.

Of course in Scotland the wind blows sideways and it rains every day. That's why I moved to the South East of England. Down here there is absolutely no reason why lime mortar and bricks shouldn't give you really dry walls. It's been wet and blowy this winter but no troubles inside and the walls will dry again so I can get my U value back. I lived in a stone farmhouse and stone pointed in cement definitely causes issues after a little movement cracks the mortar joints. We also had water blowing through the wall when the wind was bad and dripping onto the window sill. That one was cement and wood in a badly designed and installed window that had shrunk.

My advice to my father was let me have a look when I'm next up there but appreciate that doesn't help anyone else.

Mostly traditionally built buildings worked when they were built else they wouldn't have been built like that in the first place. They took advantage of lime and such as a means to keep the walls dry by evaporation to outside. These days most trades are inexperienced in older buildings and materials and you get problems. Owners have to go outside and look for gaps and cracks and go through the horrible logic puzzle to figure out where the water is getting in while trying to maintain a way for water to evaporate away on sunny says so it's not twice as bad next year.

 

[Sollys]

Thanks Malcolm and good luck for your dad’ s property. Too many damp areas to photograph! We are now leaning towards cladding or tile hanging on batons with space behind for air to circulate. I need to understand more to see which may be best and get some quotes. No idea what this next phase will cost but it has got to work!