Sash Window Surprise and Mystery

[MatthewC]

I've started at last with the last renovation of a large sash window in my house. Not a good time in this weather, but it's the last chance this year for a potentially two week job.

I had quite a surprise when I found that the upper sash had never been a moveable window. It has no pulleys, no cord and no weights - there's not even a groove in the side to accomodate the end of the cord. Fortunately I was being very careful as I cut through the paint and so I didn't drop it!

The mystery is how on earth did they hold it in place when they fitted it. No extra screws or nails, no wedge, nothing apart from the thick layers of paint. Any ideas how they managed this? And are fixed sashes normal? None of the others were fixed!

See my blog for a couple of photos: http://houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/sash-window-surprise-and-mystery.html

Matthew

 

[Abi Cott]

I don't know how usual it is but I have no pulleys on my sashes on the second floor. Nor evidence of them ever having been fitted. The top sashes are fixed, I helped the guy take two out and the top sashes were not nailed in, the external bead might have been doing something to support them (I can't quite remember). The lower sashes are operable but need propping open with a handy stick.

On the first and ground floor the sashes have pulleys. One of the bottom sashes opens. I don't know if the top ones were designed to as I haven't had the windows on those floors restored yet.

I believe the windows are replacements added in the Victorian era but I can't be sure. I assumed it was a cost saving measure on the lower status part of the house.

 

[88v8]

Ah, a single-hung sash.
Wiki says there are also quadruple-hung sashes, never seen one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sash_window

And openers with no counterweights are not uncommon, as Abi says, a period economy measure. Be nice if owners maintained those past quirks rather than making them all double-hung.

No support.... perhaps it was a tight fit when new, and the carpenter just forgot?
You did well not to drop it.

Ivor

 

[Feltwell]

My dining room has 3 sash windows together on the same wall - two narrow side ones and one much wider centre one. All sashes originally opened.

Therefore, when I began renovating the bay window in my lounge, I assumed that both the smaller side windows would have originally opened as well as the larger centre one. All were well and truly stuck shut, and the side sashes had been replaced with some really badly made ones at some point. On taking them out though, no holes for sash pulleys and no pocket covers in the boxes either - the sashes never opened.

I will confess that I have converted them to open by cutting in new pulleys, as well as pocket covers for the weights. There's enough space in the sash boxes for weights luckily.

 

[wobs]

My dining room has 3 sash windows together on the same wall - two narrow side ones and one much wider centre one. All sashes originally opened.

Therefore, when I began renovating the bay window in my lounge, I assumed that both the smaller side windows would have originally opened as well as the larger centre one. All were well and truly stuck shut, and the side sashes had been replaced with some really badly made ones at some point. On taking them out though, no holes for sash pulleys and no pocket covers in the boxes either - the sashes never opened.

I will confess that I have converted them to open by cutting in new pulleys, as well as pocket covers for the weights. There's enough space in the sash boxes for weights luckily.

Our downstairs bay window (which I'm currently renovating) has the side sashes shut. They look like they should open, as they have parting beads etc, but there is no pulleys, and the top of each sash has no gap where cord would go. Looking at the houses on our row, I see no locks on any downstairs side sashes, so I assume this was the case for all of our row of houses.

That ours do not open meant I was able to strip and paint them last summer, so I'm currently sanding the insides of them now, while also doing the main window.

However, the upstairs side sashes do open.

 

[MatthewC]

Well, I've found how the top window was secured in place. At each bottom corner there was a nail at 45 degrees upwards through the sash into the frame. The nail was much more than a quite long panel pin! The reason I didn't see it before was that both had rusted away and there was just a small spot of rust to tell me what had been done.

I think I'll add a small block under each side, screwed to the frame, when I re-fit them.

 

[TheRoost]

This is an interesting thread, I'm sure I've read somewhere before that some Edwardian sashes, the type that are 1 over 1 with a taller/larger bottom sash, only have one opening sash, which I guess would be the upper with it being smaller and lighter? We want to replace upvc at the front of our house with wood sash windows eventually, as we are on a noisy road I did wonder about having fixed sashes at the front (we have side windows in the front room also) so at least it doesn't seem such a barmy idea if it was done originally.

 

[MatthewC]

Yes, I would think that it also save a few bob on the cost of a new window, if you never intend to open that top sash.

Incidentally, I was most pleased with myself as I had the entire window back in place and operating (and secure!) in eight elapsed days. What's more, t'other half is very pleased with it and has dispensed with the net curtain covering the bottom half, as she only wanted that to hide the state of the window - Result!!