Sash window restoration costs

[overlander matt]

We'll soon be starting on restoring a Georgian house in Derbyshire with a beautiful façade. There has not been a great deal of work other than basic maintenance carried out since the 1980s. This will be my first listed house and first with single glazed sash windows... I have read a great deal about restoration and maintenance of sash windows over the last few weeks and while I would like to consider the DIY option, I think given the number of windows and how much work there is to do, I will need to leave this to someone else.

Out of interest, what is the typical cost (anything to get a rough idea) involved with restoring old sash windows? I suspect that we will look to have them stripped back, any rot removed, filled and repainted. Draft proofing seems the way to go and we will no doubt have to sick with single glazing as the building is listed.

The three dormer windows in the roof also need a fair amount of work but these are I think newer replacements.



I've inserted a photo to give an idea of the sizes.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Matt

 

[Abi Cott]

One window, double that size, removed and hole boarded up, stripped, taken apart, all rotted timber replaced with reclaimed pitch pine machined to be an exact match, reassembled with original glass where possible, painted and refitted, no draught proofing added. £700 in West Yorkshire. I've no idea if that's a good price, I got two quotes at about the same, he's nice, turns up when he says he will and does what he says he will. I'm sticking with him.

 

[TheForge]

Hi Matt,

Do you have any details on the history of that front elevation? The bricks look a really unusual size in the photo and certainly not in line with any standard sizes post the 1784 brick tax.

 

[Kearn]

I wonder if it's a trick of the eye/screen due to the low resolution this site requires? For example, the rubbed brick arch above the centre window confuses me when I zoom in!!

One thought could be that it's tuck pointing, fashioned to give an appearance of thinner courses of bricks... Hard to tell from the images, but definitely a gorgeous frontage.

 

[LeeL82]

We've had 4 companies come around and quote us for restoring our sash windows, all of which have gone down the route of explaining why replacing with like for like new wooden sash windows would be much more beneficial. All the quotes came in at around £3.5K per bay (we've got dormer sash windows, one central sash and two dead sides) Here's a break down of the most recent quote we got:

=====

Traditional sash and case timber windows.

Individual double-glazed units with solid full astragals.
Low profile double glazed units, Planitherm Low E with argon gas filled cavity.
Low profile glazing so it matches as close to the original window.
Concealed draught strips 6 per sash, 1 top and bottom and 2 either side of the sliding sash – excellent sound and draught proofing.
Beading nailed with stainless steel nails.
Treated redwood case and sashes, with options on other timbers.
Locking catches to the centre.
Travel restrictors for extra security and child safety.
4 coats of sprayed on paint, Scandinavian product very durable.
Hand made in our workshop in Kirkcaldy, call in anytime to have a look.
Suitable for conservation and listed buildings.
Will look like the original windows when finished.


Your windows.
White inside and out fully factory sprayed with 4 coats of paint.
To the same style as per the existing, Traditional Sash and Case window to the middle with fixed angled panes to the sides.
No roofing or lead work in this quote.
Change the outside plates to the front of the bay windows, the top plates may need changed and can advise on the final survey.

All prices are including vat, this is a quotation valid for 6 months.


Net 2,680.00 Vat 536.00 Total Amount £3,216.00 PER BAY.


The outside plates will need changed also they will be cut to size factrory sprayed all round then installed.

Net 220.00 Vat 44.00 Total amount £264.00 PER BAY


All work will be carried out in a clean, tidy and professional manner with the working area being cleared up every night when work is finished.

=======

 

[overlander matt]

Thanks for the replies.

Abi, I think the £700 price is lower than I expected. West Yorkshire does not sound too far from Derbyshire - does your man travel? There are plenty of windows to keep someone busy for a few weeks!

Lee, thanks for the detailed breakdown of your quote. I'm not sure we would be permitted to replace the windows with like-for-like new given the listed status of the house - particularly those windows at the front of the house but it's interesting to know what some companies charge.

Until I formally get the keys it will be a bit difficult to get some local companies out to price up the windows.

As for the history of the building and bricks, I will post more in the near future! I am led to believe it dates from 1750 but I have nothing to add at this stage regarding the bricks. Although the original house was Georgian, there was a Victorian extension added at the back later. This seems to have been made from a different brick. We are very keen to repair the façade, removing the three gas fire flues, replacing the various damaged bricks and probably looking to repoint. There has been rather a lot of pointing with cement-based mortar here and elsewhere on the building so this will inevitably keep us busy!

Thanks again.

Matt

 

[Mickey]

Matt your house is listed so unfortunately or fortunately depending on your sympathies replacement should not be an option let alone double glazed and in any event if you have original glass you really would not want to lose any of that, although I notice you do have some dodgy windows already at the back...did the PO get LBC for those? To my mind old windows were often better constructed than new ones (at least they are in my house) and it's always better to repair....there is an excellent thread on here where someone repaired a sash bay window and did a brilliant job and it illustrates perfectly what is possible.

Really lovely looking house by the way, hope you have lots of original features, doors, architraves, fireplaces? any more pics, inside, outside?

cheers
Mickey

 

[overlander matt]

Thanks Mickey. I think the only option for the front and side is restoration of the original windows. Around the back there is a bit of a mix of styles - nothing original I think other than the stained window over the staircase. I'm hoping listed building consent won't be a drama as the conservation officer has stressed how pragmatic they are in the area. A number of other listed properties in the village are not in good shape and hopefully they welcome someone coming along with some good intentions.

I will post more pictures as soon as we complete on the house - I'm not sure it's right to do so just yet and I'll no doubt have many questions about all aspects of the project ahead. For now here are some more window photos to give a better idea of the condition. From what I have read so far these should certainly be repairable.

Thanks again.

Matt

 

[JanieB]

My house isn't as big as yours. It's a 3 bed terrace. But the 2 sash windows at the front are 200+ years old. They had the beginnings of rot and the ropes and weights had given up the ghost. I called on Ventrolla. They did a good job but I do have issues with them as to some aspects of their work. They cost me just over 2K about 10 years ago.

I have emails and people at the door trying to convince me to install upvc double glazing. A local salesman on our towns FB site is asking "are your windows over 5 years old?" Can you beat properly looked after 200 yr old windows with the wobbly glass? And why would anyone buy windows that only last 5 years?

 

[Feltwell]

Can't help on costs as I've always done my own, but even disregarding listing implications for a moment a replaced window will never look the same - all the wear and imperfections of age are gone, which to my mind is a big part of the charm of an old house.

My neighbours had their bay replaced about 20 years ago, it's had to be repaired a couple of times since and it just doesn't look right - it's too square and perfect, it has micro double glazing, all the original catches are gone, mouldings aren't the same, etc etc.

Pretty much any wooden window is salvageable, I've only completely replaced one original window so far in my Victorian house - that was a dormer casement window, both openers and the bottom half of the frame had had it, there would have so little left of the original window I was better off starting again. The worst windows in this house now are a couple that were replaced in the 80's, the original Victorian ones were definitely made of better quality timber.

Bay window restoration saga below at my house - a lot of work but shows that even ones that look bad can be brought back to life.

http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16118&p=219935&hilit=repair#p219935

 

[LeeL82]

Can't help on costs as I've always done my own, but even disregarding listing implications for a moment a replaced window will never look the same - all the wear and imperfections of age are gone, which to my mind is a big part of the charm of an old house.

Agree 100% with this!

 

[MatthewC]

...the 2 sash windows at the front are 200+ years old. They had the beginnings of rot and the ropes and weights had given up the ghost. I called on Ventrolla. They did a good job but I do have issues with them as to some aspects of their work. They cost me just over 2K about 10 years ago...

I had a quote from Ventrolla some years ago, which was pretty pricey I thought, also over £2k each. Then they came and did the house next door; the first thing they did on each window was to smash all the old wavy glass!

As a result, I ended up doing my windows myself - the real issue was the putty had died and they were all loose!.I did a couple each summer and finished last year. Each took about 30-35 manhours spread over a two week period, to completely dismantle back to bare wood, repair as required (no signficant carpentry), refit original glass in most cases, reassemble and repaint.

 

[Flyfisher]

I'm hoping listed building consent won't be a drama as the conservation officer has stressed how pragmatic they are in the area. A number of other listed properties in the village are not in good shape and hopefully they welcome someone coming along with some good intentions.

We contacted our CO and he visited the house before we even took it on. This enabled us to outline our general plans for the property and generally 'sound each other out'. Fortunately our intentions were welcomed and encouraged and we've got along ever since, even after three formal LBC applications and numerous visits for advice and guidance over the past 12 years. So don't think you have to actually wait until the keys are handed over before talking with your CO (it sounds as if you already have!). I appreciate that different councils and different COs may have different policies or attitudes to pre-purchase advice or visits, but it certainly worked well for us and I'd say is at least worth trying. After all, if you buy a listed property needing work (and which ones dont?!) you'll likely end up having to deal with the CO at some stage, so might as well try to get the relationship working as soon as possible.

Anyway, best of luck with the purchase - it's a lovely looking house!

 

[LeeL82]

I wish the C/Os in Fife was equally as easy to get in touch with, I would have loved to of met ours before buying the house were in, walk over a few things etc, but all I got was ignored emails and failed returned calls when I tried reaching out to them. I'll just stick with conservation area & Planning consent and go into it fingers crossed haha.

 

[Feltwell]

The post above with the closer picture of the windows has only just appeared for me, presumably it was waiting for moderation. Those windows look to be in great condition - I'm sure a few bits up close aren't so great, but they are without question in far better condition than mine!

I'd say there's no urgency in giving them attention, so I'd suggest move in and live with it all for a bit - windows are better done in the summer anyway! You may find you have higher priorities to deal with.

Lovely looking house by the way - very handsome.

 

[overlander matt]

Thanks again for the various replies to my original post. I think we are set on repairing the windows rather than replacing on the Georgian aspects (which would almost certainly not be an option). There are a few other more recent additions that we will look to replace with something more appropriate.

Hopefully we will get the keys to the house in the next 2-4 weeks. After that we have until September to work on the house before we move in with our two young children. That's not a lot of time. The main focus internally will be the rear wing of the house where we hope to have a kitchen/dining area and a family lounge on the ground floor and rework the first floor to create a main bedroom, ensuite and family bathroom. The children will have the two rooms at the front of the house with the great sash windows and we hope to have these rooms ready for September. Perhaps we'll get the windows done this summer but with so much work going on elsewhere I thought I would pay to have this done...

There will be a fair bit of more structural and external work required - reroofing, repair/repointing/lining chimneys. This is going to need scaffolding and the question is whether to try to get 'everything' done in one hit with the scaffolding - chimneys, roof, dormer window repairs, cornice, brickwork repairs and repointing, window and door repairs... I don't want to go too far off topic as I will post again about the right order of works for the project. I suppose the question relating to the post is whether I should tackle the windows at the same time I have scaffolding for the roof work?

Thanks again. I particularly enjoyed Feltwell's bay window restoration report. It looks a great job and I'm learning a lot.

Matt

 

[Feltwell]

Sounds like you're going to be busy Matt!

You don't need to worry too much about scaffolding for your windows - sash restoration can be done entirely from the inside if need be, so I wouldn't put it at the top of your list to do.

You remove the staff beads first, which are - when looking from inside the room - the strips of wood around the inside of the sash box frame that hold the bottom sash in place. After that you can take the bottom sash out into the room. Then you remove the parting bead, which as the name implies keeps the 2 sashes apart, and the top sash comes out, again it comes out into the room. All that work has to be done from the inside anyway. The sashes can then be taken away and restored anywhere - the box frame can be cleaned up from the inside, it's really only at this stage that having external access is useful at all, as you strip the paint off the outside face of the sash box - but this isn't much and you can do it easily enough by leaning through from the inside.

The sashes and the box frame are best decorated whilst the sashes are out.

Usually you'll need to board the window up for a bit, as it's more than a day's work, especially with the decoration.

 

[overlander matt]

I thought I would post an update on the cost of the sash window restoration now that we have almost finished those in the Georgian part of the house. We have fitted new sills to all 12 of the windows and nearly all windows required rotten timber to be cut out from the bottom 5-30cm of the timber boxes. Our windows predated the law forcing windows to be recessed behind brickwork which has resulted in the extra exposed timber requiring a bit more work. Sashes have been repaired where possible but I think 6 were replaced at a cost of £200 each. Each window has required on average 6 days work from our joiner and maybe a couple of days of my time painting and stripping down. I think Ventrolla quoted around £1200 per window which is not much more than we will have spent but I think the windows would then have required painting.

We have a few sash windows in the Victorian part of the house. These being smaller, and with fewer glazing bars, have been less work on the couple we have looked at so far. We have paid £600 for a new sash window (2 sashes and complete wooden frame but no weights, glazing, furniture) in hard wood to match.

The windows are looking much smarter than when we started. The draft proof seals and correct weighting mean there is now a satisfaction to operating the window! The biggest problem is keeping everything clean while the works continue.

Hope this helps someone.

Matt

 

[Gothichome]

Matt, nice to hear of your success and the fact it didn’t put you in the poor house. How about an update picture.