Sash window replacement recommendations

[scoobydoo]

I've got a 200 year old cottage with sash windows x 4 at the front. The property has previously had secondary doubleglazing, but was a reposession and the secondary glass has all been removed.

I want to remove the secondary glazing frames and replace the old wooden sash windows (partly rotten, most cords etc. broken, draughty and noisy). I'd like to put sash replacements back in, but avoid wooden ones if I can so I don't need to maintain them. I've been told that there are some very impressive UPVC ones now. I don't want the secondary frames as they're not very nice to look at.

I can get away with UPVC sash provided it's a good likeness to the original wooden units which are in there at the moment - here are some of the things I'd need:

- The sash bars would need to be internal and not stuck onto the glass
- I'd need the little sash frame 'feet' that sit at the bottom of the top sash
- I'd need white piping, not the black rubber stuff

Can anyone advise on a good supplier and fitter? I don't mind going to a big well-known upvc provider if someone can recommend one particular one for the quality of the product and fitting? I'm in west sussex if that helps.

Any recommendations very gratefully recieved!

 

[Moo]

but avoid wooden ones if I can so I don't need to maintain them.

Whatever gave you that idea?

 

[Nemesis]

The uPVC ones are awful. Claims regarding not requiring maintenance etc are not proven. They look rubbish in period buildings.

It's not a matter of what you can get away with surely? It's a matter of being sympathetic to the building? Retaining historic fabric? Original mouldings? And possibly original glass? Otherwise why buy a period building?

The little 'feet' are horns. They are integral, if appropriate (early sashes didn't have them) and in uPVC they are stuck on as bit of naff decoration.

http://www.georgiangroup.org.uk/docs/cases/index.php?id=3:62:0:0


Why not simply have yours repaired? Rather better for the building and the environment.

 

[scoobydoo]

I've got a lot of road noise unfortunately. I'd love to keep what I've got, but they're in such bad condition it's a no-go.

I don't mind what we use, but I've got to lose some of the road noise, it's awful. 200 years ago there were no cars driving past at ridiculous speeds...

 

[Nemesis]

Repair of the originals and draughtproofing would cut down on noise.

See Ventrolla.

 

[charlie-ia]

we have a similar problem with windows that are ripe for replacement, to say the least. but an elderly friend had sashes when i was a kid, and im determined to keep these that i have finally got

im not understanding why sashes cant be double glazed? can anyone spell it out for me simply? (what exactly are the glazing bars?)

 

[worms]

...and to cut down the road noise I believe you ideally want a large gap between the panes of glass, so the original windows plus secondary glazing would probably give you the best solution.

Or have we all fallen foul of a wind-up with this post?

 

[charlie-ia]

(who minds if it is? keep em talking- it will save me asking the daft questions for once!)

 

[Moo]

I've got a lot of road noise unfortunately. 200 years ago there were no cars driving past at ridiculous speeds...

So have we, but it's not intrusive (except for the occasional emergency service sirens and really loud motor-bikes).

Admittedly the old sashes did rattle a bit before the local bus company upgraded its fleet.

 

[Nemesis]

Wind ups? On PPUK? Never! Would anyone be anything but totally serious at all times?



Yes the bigger the gap I gather the better. I have a friend who lives in \Lunnon who used to be kept awake at nights with traffic noise whose life and sleep patterns have been totally transfomed by secondary glazing from Ev*r*st. Not the prettiest but it workeed.

Storm Windows is more elegant I think.


But I also gather well fitting single glazed with draughtproofing stops a lot of noise. Much of it gets in through the gaps.

Ventrolla.


The glazing bars have to be very wide to DG sashes - IMHO look not good.

 

[charlie-ia]

The glazing bars have to be very wide to DG sashes - IMHO look not good.

(what exactly are the glazing bars?)

see - i do listen!

got any diagrams, or a pic of an ugly dg sash?

our windows appear to be in such a state that we will have to take them mostly into pieces, and perhaps some new lintels, so if it is possible to double glaze, we'd like to, it wouldnt be much more work in the long run.

 

[NT]

pvc knocks thousands off resale value in some cases, or more specifically the cost of removing them and putting wooden sashes back. They arent everlasting unfortunately, though they do need no maintenance for a while at least. Wood sashes made from durable timber such as oak is maintenance free.

Repair of rot is usually cheaper than replacement. Secondary glazing can be frameless and have minimum visibility. The thicker the secondary glass the better noisewise. Draughtproofing alone reduces noise through sashes greatly, and is an easy enough DIY job once you know how to take the sashes out and fit them back.

If you do get someone like ventrolla in, dont let them fit springs! Bl--- awful things.


NT

 

[Lime]

If you do get someone like ventrolla in, dont let them fit springs! Bl--- awful things

I've been living with sash springs in my new kitchen for a year now.
The bottom sash that is opened nearly every day has started to close by itself.

 

[biffvernon]

They'll be coming for you

 

[Lime]

Yes the bigger the gap I gather the better

For noise pollution the ideal is 11 inches.

 

[Nemesis]

Ventrolla don't fit springs - they redo the sash cords.

 

[Adam F]

I have gathered (and agree!) from previous postings that UPVC windows in Period properies look ugly and dont suit the building...

...but what are the opinions on New DG timber sash windows? The benefit of DG to cut noise and improve thermal efficiancy with the symaphetic value of good ol' timber??

We are moving into our new house in a few weeks (GII georgian farmhouse) but is bang on a main A road, so we will be in a similar situation.

Adam

 

[charlie-ia]

I found a labelled diagram of a sash window. http://www.sashrenovation.co.uk/services.htm

some good pictures - http://www.sliding-sash.co.uk/GlazingBars.htm

brief history of sash windows (sponsored by a double glazing company)
http://www.boxsash.com/4-1history.html

generaly clear and interesting reading about windows, from the irish government-
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/Heritage/ArchitecturalHeritage/FileDownLoad,2226,en.pdf

and this page has a small slideshow of some double glazed windows. http://www.origdgsash.co.uk

 

[Nemesis]

Grade II Listed - I doubt that you will get LBC.

You may get it for secondary.

 

[Adam F]

Thanks for the tip. We will have to check then.

A few of the windows have been replaced recently with plain glass timber sash - do DG units really look so far out of place even in timber?