Sash Window Renovation

[wobs]

Getting toward the end of painting a sash window, and its taken months. Not helped by demands of family of course, but once I got past the prep stage (which also took a long time owing to its poor state), the painting still took a long time. One coat took over 4 hrs, and so doing it during the week on a night would take 3 nights per coat.

One of the reasons for this is the use of linseed paints. I've used them before (Holkams), although this is the first time I've used an off-white (LinseedPaintCompany). Five coats later, and its looking something like, but Mrs Wobs isn't impressed at the time taken. The finish is nice, and it dries quicker than the Holkam stuff (Allback now apparently), but that's another story.

I've used a green on the outside, which obviously has taken less coats, but the inside needs something lighter.

This is the first window I have done for this house, and there's two bay windows to do yet. Is linseed paint even advised for the interior side of window frames?

 

[Feltwell]

Wobs,

I've given up on linseed paint for the inside of my sashes for exactly the same reason. On the outside I'm still using Holkhams linseed. On the inside I'm using ordinary Dulux, which I colour matched to the windows I'd already done with Holkhams Old White on the inside. They match well.

I can't find a way of painting a sash without boarding the window up temporarily though - at least whilst I'm in "full window restoration" mode. Hopefully next time they need decorating just to freshen them up I can leave the sashes in. The colour is staying the same!

I've never needed 5 coats though - not even with a white on the inside - 3 is the most on a window, my new driveway gates needed 4 coats for a cream colour.

 

[plasticpigeon]

In some old books i have it details the composition of various colours of paint. the main ingredients are often boiled linseed oil, turpentine, white lead other pigments for colours and driers. So if in this era white lead was substituted with titanium dioxide? Would that work? Also why does linseed paint take so long to dry? If driers are added, (they are sold in my local hardware shop) then wouldn't that speed things up?

 

[88v8]

When I painted the sashes in our previous house, it was their first painting as they were new repros. I used lead until it because unobtainum, then Sikkens AZ.
The runs, that is to say the sides of the box and the sides of the parting and stop bead which in use are permanently covered by one or the other sashes, I painted with primer only, and then put the sashes in. The remainder received the usual undercoat + 2 x topcoats, which by swinging the sashes out on their chains was extended a just couple of inches onto the runs the first time I painted, thereafter not. The sides of the sashes were not painted at all, and the unpainted sides and primed-only runs, got a coat of candle wax occasionally.

The areas of box sashes which deteriorate are the junction of box and cill, no amount of painting seems to prevent cracking at that point. Also the bottom of the parting bead which sits in the damp and needs full painting before it is tapped into the groove.

I could never get a whole coat on in the day. I painted what I could with the sashes pushed up, and then the next day with the sashes pushed down. The process was further elongated because I painted the box one colour and the sashes another. Quite a faff. Have some slight sympathy with those who ended up painting them shut.

I avoided painting other than in balmy days of summer to avoid extended drying times, as I suspect that may be deleterious to paint durability, and in any case I needed to shut the windows!

Ivor

 

[Toby Newell]

@plastic pigeon

the paint is essentially a boiled linseed oil 'varnish', they all take long to dry. Titanic white (Ti02) will not go blue/grey like Flake white (PbCO3) and will stay 'whiter' so no, they will not be the same, over time.

Terebene, like Flake white, is poisonous to you, which is why, along with the poor lightfastness of the pigment and the long drying times modern paints were synthesised. Terebene also degrades the finish and makes it go brittle so in general finishers try and not use it, in general if a product has terebene in it we know it is not going to be very durable. Cheap waxes have terebene or other driers added.

I am afraid if you want to use this semi-traditional concoction then you will have to put up with the long drying times.

A quality microporous paint would be less toxic, easier to apply and do the same job only much better and can be tinted with universal paint stainers to give that dirty off white lead look.

But you know, that may be not so much fun.

 

[bobby spray]

If you have time you can make your own linseed oil paint quite easily. I have only made white and it consisted of a mixture of
Titanium dioxide
Boiled linseed oil
pine resin flakes (rosin) dissolved in traditional turpertine

I didn't use dryers although i did consider terebene. The finish was ok but required a number of coats and went on a bit thin - like a lime wash. it took about a week drying time between coats. the rain didn't seem to affect it.

 

[wobs]

Wobs,

I've given up on linseed paint for the inside of my sashes for exactly the same reason. On the outside I'm still using Holkhams linseed. On the inside I'm using ordinary Dulux, which I colour matched to the windows I'd already done with Holkhams Old White on the inside. They match well.

I think I'll do similar with the rest of the sashes in our house. This is the first one I've tackled here, and (hopefully) the most challenging, owing to rot that needed a great deal of attention (splicing in new wood etc).

I can't find a way of painting a sash without boarding the window up temporarily though - at least whilst I'm in "full window restoration" mode. Hopefully next time they need decorating just to freshen them up I can leave the sashes in. The colour is staying the same!

This is one of the good things about sashes for me. You can board it up, and paint the vast majority of the window in doors, without fear of the weather, or leaving the windows open for prolonged periods. Although, as you say, I hope to leave them in when they get freshened up in the future.

I've never needed 5 coats though - not even with a white on the inside - 3 is the most on a window, my new driveway gates needed 4 coats for a cream colour.

When I've used Holkams on the last house, I generally used 3 coats (4 sometimes with the cream).
The LinseedPaintCompany stuff seems to not cover as well, but the drying time is much reduced, and is a bit more forgiving if you don't spread to the thinnest coat possible. And the finish is more consistent (gloss finish). The brick red of the Holkam paint I used would often vary from a matt to a silk finish, although I wonder if I was not doing it quite right.

I'm currently doing green on the outside, and this is taking 4 coats. I think the off-white won't get used again at Wobs Acres.

So between the two linseed paint brands, I can see pros and cons for both.

 

[Lime]

I look at the front bay window of my house and despair of modern paints.
4 years ago I used a mixture of paints for convenience which I regret now.
I used Holkhams linseed on the woodwork, a propriety gloss paint on the vertical stone work and Dulux weathershield on the stone cill.

The linseed looks as fresh as when I painted it.
The gloss on the upright stone pillars is crazed and some is flaking off.
The stone cill is a mass of bubbles, cracks and flakes and looks really bad.

I know what paint I'll be using outside next time!

 

[88v8]

I look at the front bay window of my house and despair of modern paints.
4 years ago I used a mixture of paints for convenience which I regret now.
I used Holkhams linseed on the woodwork, a propriety gloss paint on the vertical stone work and Dulux weathershield on the stone cill.

The linseed looks as fresh as when I painted it.
The gloss on the upright stone pillars is crazed and some is flaking off.
The stone cill is a mass of bubbles, cracks and flakes and looks really bad.

I know what paint I'll be using outside next time!

For stone & cement one needs an alkali resist primer
http://www.duluxdecoratorcentre.co.uk/servlet/ProductHandler?code=DDC10031

Other makes are available.

Ivor

 

[Lime]

I look at the front bay window of my house and despair of modern paints.
4 years ago I used a mixture of paints for convenience which I regret now.
I used Holkhams linseed on the woodwork, a propriety gloss paint on the vertical stone work and Dulux weathershield on the stone cill.

The linseed looks as fresh as when I painted it.
The gloss on the upright stone pillars is crazed and some is flaking off.
The stone cill is a mass of bubbles, cracks and flakes and looks really bad.

I know what paint I'll be using outside next time!

For stone & cement one needs an alkali resist primer
http://www.duluxdecoratorcentre.co.uk/servlet/ProductHandler?code=DDC10031

Other makes are available.

Ivor

Thanks for that.