Sash window again

[plasticpigeon]

Hello all. Over the next 3 days I am hoping to make a sash window box to replace the rotten one at the back of my house, so it can coincide with some building work. I am re using the sashes, but will remake all but the top of the box frame. I have an old joinery book which states that play should be at least 1/16", (around 1.6 mm in new money). This seems quite close. Does anyone have any experience of this??? I suppose I can always make to size, or with minimal clearance and then plane the sashes to fit, it would be awful to make the box frame too large!!!

 

[Penners]

That does seem a pretty tight tolerance. Does the book specify the kind of timber it's talking about?

Have you measured the tolerance between the current sashes and the box? In your shoes I think I would probably take that as my guideline.

 

[MatthewC]

If your box frame turns out to be too wide for your sashes, you could always add lots of paint - that's what someone's done here in the past, it seems!

 

[agbagb]

The top of box should give you the width. 1/16 all round will give you play of 1/8th the cord if proud of it's groove will take this up and be compressable so it should slide well. Expansion of linning due to moisture content changes can cause sticking if the outer edges are right up against the opening.

Top and bottom gap should be zero when the sashes are shut, but you might want to add a compression seal top and bottom.

Back to front. Will you be useing a brush pile / wiper parting bead, staff bead? If so the top sash doesn't want to be pressed over tight to the outer lining. Bottom sash pressure is adjustable depending on how tight you set the staff beads.

Hope this helps.

 

[Lime]

I have an old joinery book which states that play should be at least 1/16"

That can mean from 1/16" to 1/4".
Whenever I have rebuilt frames I have used the sashes as templates.
I build from the sill upwards.
It is not always sensible to assume everything is square and equal if using old sashes.

 

[MatthewC]

It is not always sensible to assume everything is square and equal ...

If you add "vertical" and "horizontal" to that, it applies to just about everything on old properties, doesn't it? I should have learned but I'm still getting caught out. Then I found that my new extension had some unsquare and non-vertical bits. D'oh!

 

[tobydog]

Our new extension is joined to the old part of the house by a hallway link. The hallway is not true because the old house wall has a significant kink in it at the join. When the tiling subcontractor laid the floor, for some strange reason he thought he would follow the original wall which meant the other three walls were out by a long way. He swore (so did I :x ) that he was right but we ganged up on him with the main contractor and had it re-done. Imagine sitting at a table playing chess with a board that was at an angle - that's what it was like with four doors coming off it. Even the main contractor tried to get us to agree to keeping it at first by offering to reduce the contract price but he realised that was going nowhere.

 

[plasticpigeon]

2 days work!!!!! I wish I hadn't decided to make it from hardwood!!! Dow did the joiners of old make these things in a reasonable time with only hand tools?????

 

[Penners]

2 days work!!!!! I wish I hadn't decided to make it from hardwood!!! Dow did the joiners of old make these things in a reasonable time with only hand tools?????

Because they made them out of easily workable green oak as opposed to kiln-dried endangered hardwood species.

 

[Feltwell]

In the true spirit of PP pedantry Mr P, I feel compelled to point out that in plasticpigeon's case, given the age and status of his abode, that like my house those old joiners would have almost certainly used softwood - albeit slowly grown, dense, durable softwood (in comparison to the stuff we mostly have now).

I bought some new Portugese "maritime pine" a while ago, as floorboards - which I've used for everything except flooring! It's lovely dense stuff, really heavy compared to modern "whitewood" PTG flooring and very nice to work with. I just wish I could buy it in other sections, I've not found anyone else who imports it and even the company I bought the floorboards from seems to have ceased trading.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Yes my house is probably a 4th rate house or something. No hardwood anywhere, the sills were definitely a softwood. The wood I used was Sapele. I think it is African, and the cheapest hardwood available. I just assumed it would be more durable than some redwood or whatever my local woodyard would give me if I asked for softwood. Would it have been better to make it from green oak?? Wouldn't I have had troubles with shrinkage??? All my woodwork experience outside of basic stuff like fitting floorboards and architrave etc comes from making and fixing guitars as a hobby, where all wood is very well seasoned, so I am surprised to hear that unseasoned wood would be used for joinery!

 

[Lime]

The sill looks fine.
I assume you used the old one for a template.

... just a small point, have you made a drip edge to the underside of the sill?
.....and while the window is out is there a weather bar fitted in the stone sill?

.....and if you have a weather bar or you fit one, make sure the underside of the wooden sill also has a groove in it corresponding to the bar.

 

[philpjuk100]

Hand crafted sash window regulator as used at the Royal hotel Whitby.Longer versions are available at reception for hot days!

 

[Penners]

Hand crafted sash window regulator

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[plasticpigeon]

Hello

I have made the window sections and I'm going to put then together over the next few days. I haven't included a groove for a waterbar. There was never one there originally. I could groove the sill but I only have a small router table, and it is really hard going routing a big channel into a hardwood sill. How about sticking on a waterbar with glue, perhaps using epoxy to glue on some rolled lead?? Would this be a rubbish solution??? Should I just bite the bullet and put in a waterbar groove. I'm thinking 10mm x 10mm.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Drip grooves much better cut in using a core box (round end) cutter, say 8mm wide, 4 - 6mm deep. Even the smallest router would have no trouble with that. Much better than anything stuck on.

http://www.wealdentool.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ewealdentool%2ecom%2facatalog%2fRouter_Cutters_1%2ehtml&WD=core%20box&PN=Online_Catalogue_Core_Box_202%2ehtml%23aT404#aT404

Wealden or Axminster are good sources for cutters.