sanstone traditional wall pointing help needed

[dhb3858]

hello chums, this is my first post here and look forward to using and giving as much as i can.

I have a two hundred years old listed cottage in the North west and the garden perimeter walls have fallen into troubled times.

i have been told (correctly or not) that i need listed building consent before i rebuild the walls. I have no idea what mix of sand/cement/lime/dye to use and in what quantities.

I am a proficient diy'er and would like to tackle this job in keeping with the area but dont know what term is used for the type of pointing that is slightly proud of the sandstone and is finished off by drawing the trowel along the proud mortar to make it tidy. (dont know if i have described this process properly)

is there anybody out there that can advise me or any links or sites would be most gratefully received.

regards
dave

 

[NT]

I have a two hundred years old listed cottage in the North west and the garden perimeter walls have fallen into troubled times.

i have been told (correctly or not) that i need listed building consent before i rebuild the walls. I have no idea what mix of sand/cement/lime/dye to use and in what quantities.

3:1 sand:lime putty. Lime putty is made by mixing bagged hydrated lime with water and storing it airtight for a few weeks. When appearance matters its a good idea to match the aggregate to any remaining work.

I am a proficient diy'er and would like to tackle this job in keeping with the area but dont know what term is used for the type of pointing that is slightly proud of the sandstone and is finished off by drawing the trowel along the proud mortar to make it tidy. (dont know if i have described this process properly)

Do you mean ribbon pointing? Very 1930s, and out of character for 1800 ish. Also I'm not sure lime and ribbon pointing would be the best combination, though I've not tried it in lime. And soft stones and ribbon pointing also are not a great combination, as it increases water content in the stone, making it more vulnerable to freeze/thaw cycle damage.


NT

 

[Nemesis]

You most probably will require listed building consent if you are to demolish and rebuild rather than repair, which would be better.

Lime (and sand) and no cement. Try to match what is existing.

The type of ribbon or strap pointing you descibe is not recommended - it is visually unattractive, not traditional, and eventually will spoil the stone. It is how not to do it, although unfortunately it is widespread I appreciate.

Here is an excellent website to help get started:
http://www.bricksandbrass.co.uk/diyelem/extwalls/pointing/pointing.htm

Although the direct link takes you a page of pictures which shows the type of pointing you describe, there is much other useful information if you use the menu regarding pointing, stone repair, and mortars.

 

[dhb3858]

thank you NT and Nemesis for your help.

I have checked out the link and it is very helpful.

If ribbon/strap pointing is not in keeping, what type of pointing would you suggest or what type is in keeping for that era?

thanks again for taking the time to reply and help me.

Regards
dhb

 

[Moo]

Is there enough of the wall left to give some idea of how it was originally pointed? If not, there's a chance that you may find another wall in the neighbourhood that might give you a clue.
That's one great advantage of having a dog - the perfect excuse for many investigative strolls around the local streets.

 

[Craig]

My understanding is that you would not require consent to take down the wall if you are rebuilding it in an identical fashion.

For instance, Rutland (woo hoo!) says:

"Straight like for like repairs, not replacement, do not require Listed Building Consent and repair is generally preferable to replacement"

But if you knock it down, the council may get upset that you are demolishing rather than repairing (although their enforcement would typically be to make you put it back which is what you are doing anyway) - it rather depends upon what is required to be done for repair purposes, and the attitiude of your council's CA.

 

[dhb3858]

thanks to moo and craig, all good stuff your giving and very much appreciated.

the wall is about 40 yards long and about 2 feet wide and it has collapsed in the middle.

Unfortunately it will involve a great deal of juggling about to re-assemble the sandstones into any resemblence of the previous fashion.

I take it that there is no rule of thumb in doing so and it is merely a case of put it where it fits !!

thanks to all the chums that have replied.

regards
dave

 

[Nemesis]

Before such demolition occurs it may be a requirement that the structure is recorded.

Repair in situ is the best course of action where possible.

It may be that the local authority does not consider the wall to be of historic significance, however I would strongly advise checking with the local authority before carrying out any work.

 

[NT]

Presumably then the thing to do is bring what remains of the wall upto a sound condition, and then rebuild the fallen section. The former may just mean a thorough pointing + removal of plants, which is far easier work than a rebuild.


NT