Same Old Rock n Roll

[chapel]

Hi all,

First time post!

Just moved into early 17th Century timbered cottage and have the usual damp problems.

Those on the ground floor i'll sort by tidying up outside, replacing part of a base timber, hacking off modernish plaster on the inside and replacing with lime plaster. Walls are half brick thick.

However, down in the cellar, which has been used as a living room in the past, one of the walls is ragstone and mud. The mud is between the stones, like a mud mortar, but only made of mud....Some bitchumen type paint has been put on in the past, but this obviously isnt up to the task, and the wall is damp. We're not talking about running water, or visible, but damp and smelly. The cellar does has a window to the front, where a scoop has been taken out of the outside ground level - the rest is below ground.

Question: What do i do about this stone and mud wall? Will lime plaster also be ok here? what if i want to keep the wall as is with visible stones? Could i, if mad enough, replace the mud in between the stones with lime mortar? Actually, i don't have 7 years so this is out....

Oh, and i'll probably put a humid fan in to imporve ventilation.

p.s. had some damp companies quoting between 7 and 9k for cementious tanking.....(should have expected it really)

thanks all!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your new home.

Others more expert will be along shortly, but if I've understood you correctly, there's very little point putting lime plaster on top of bitumen paint. It won't add to the breathability of a plastic wall. If you can remove the bitumen somehow, then it will clearly be worthwhile lime plastering the wall. The usual points about improving ventilation and removing obvious causes (surface water, poor rainwater goods, etc) will all apply here.

Some bitchumen type paint...

that really is the extreme stuff! :shock:

 

[Schoolmarm]

:lol: :lol:

 

[MdB]

My understanding is that lime won't help either. You have damp coming through the walls and is evaporating from the surface which is making the air in the room damp. Lime won't make any difference to this. If it is possible to put an air gap on the outside of the wall (unlikely for a cellar) right down to the base then this will help considerably as will large amounts of ventilation.

In practise, you will probably need to put some form of dry lining / tanking system in place. The system based on a corrugated layer plus a pump (sorry can't remember a name / details) seems to be the best as this gets rid of as much moisture as possible.

 

[DaveBrigg]

Replacing the mud with lime pointing may or may not be appropriate, but if you decide to go down this route, it shouldn't take you seven years. I've just finished repointing a gable end wall built of stone held together by sand. The first inch of sand washed out very easily with a hosepipe (it had previously been held in place by cement, which had to be eased off) and repointing took a couple of weekends. Of course, if you don't want to flood the cellar, getting the mud out might take a little longer.

As mentioned earlier, if the damp problem is serious then stronger action will be needed to either provide enough ventilation or to dry line the walls to keep the damp out of the living area, whilst still giving it some way of escaping.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Hello chapel and welcome.

From a complete novice's point of view, but as someone who lives with damp, I'd live in your house for a year before you do anything drastic. It may be that your habits of ventilating well and using more heating make a tremendous difference.

I live a lot of the time in the "cellar" here, a series of rooms making up kitchens and sculleries and game hanging larders etc. The dehumidifer has helped tremendously, as has keeping the back door open all summer. Still, though, a bag of shoes or laundry left lying around will go mouldy in a couple of months. Ultimately I'd like to create a French drain around the outside walls, get rid of the cement pointing, dig down to recreate windows, and get a wood burning stove down there... Sounds like your bitchumen has got to go. Attacking damp is a multi pronged, lengthy process and to a certain extent I wonder if you ever can completely eliminate it in an old house. I think peopleof yore must have had a higher tolerance of it.

Good luck and keep us posted, oh, and we love pics on here!

 

[chapel]

Hi all,

Thanks for the advice. I thinnk i'll end up going for some dry lining.

Interestingly, i've just discovered that 3 of the 4 wall in the cellar are actually stone and mud (with the other being a party wall). The other 2 have had breeze block walls put up in front of them,with a gap of about 6 in inbetween. I think this is a previous attempt to stop the damp - one that has now failed as these walls are also damp.

Think i may have to go for dry lining down there...

Treated batonning.
Insulated plasterboard
Gap between the wall and plasterboard
Air gap at bottom

Sound right?

thanks, all

 

[AMc]

Given that you're below ground level you're going to get some moisture travelling out of the soil and into the void your room creates. While dry lining the walls will have some impact unless you work on extracting the moisture too I think you'll be back to square one after a while with the back of the dry lining getting saturated until it works though the joins in the boards. I'm not honestly sure what the best solution is given that many people report 'tanking' also eventually fails.

If you install vents at the top and bottom of the lining you should get some airflow but my best guess would be some kind of forced ventilation and/or dehumidification in/around/through the gap behind the lining is going to be needed. If there is a way to vent the gap outside that might provide a better solution?

Heating and ventilation will obviously help but being below ground I would expect you will have an almost limitless supply of moisture trying to get in so a mechanism to remove the moisture as well as prevent it getting into the living space would be needed.