Sad year for Birmingham

[plasticpigeon]

Not only did Birmingham council allow the amazing Springhill library to be engulfed by a Tesco superstore, but now they plan to close it. Along with the planned closure of Moseley Rd baths in 2015, and the closure of Nechells library due to theft of lead from the roof this is very sad for my city.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/four-birmingham-libraries-facing-closure-6556612

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/historic-birmingham-library-closes-after-6247779

http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/local-news/nine-swimming-pools-leisure-centres-6343248

Can someone explain to me why Birmingham was once a place with pride and vision and now it is monumentally shite. I don't believe this is down to cuts at all, it is corruption and lack of political will. I obviously don't know how the world works, but it seems not to be working very well for most normal people. Also as an aside, I am not particularly poor, and live in a small house so that I can live within my means, but having a few quid in my pocket means nothing if I am surrounded by grot, but we seem to be fed non stop the idea that standard of living is only related to disposable income. Nonsense.

 

[88v8]

Surely it is elitist to suggest that beauty matters, that old and beautiful things matter.
Elitist, inconvenient.
There are so many disadvaaaantaged people on whom to waste, sorry, spend, public money. More voteworthy.
Sad day when the ist was added to elite.

It would presumably be another form of ist to wonder whether a large proportion of Birmingham's population gives a toss about old English buildings.

Ivor (perpetually PC)

 

[Penners]

I am not particularly poor, and live in a small house so that I can live within my means, but having a few quid in my pocket means nothing if I am surrounded by grot, but we seem to be fed non stop the idea that standard of living is only related to disposable income. Nonsense.

I heartily agree. It's time for those with their hands on the national tiller realised that standard of living is not what counts - it's quality of living that matters.

Life would be so much better if everybody obeyed me. :evil:

 

[Lime]

Surely it is elitist to suggest that beauty matters, that old and beautiful things matter.
Elitist, inconvenient.
There are so many disadvaaaantaged people on whom to waste, sorry, spend, public money. More voteworthy.
Sad day when the ist was added to elite.

It would presumably be another form of ist to wonder whether a large proportion of Birmingham's population gives a toss about old English buildings.

Ivor (perpetually PC)

I was having a similar discussion with my wife over breakfast today.
The theme was "why do I keep everything I possibly can?" i.e. shed full of bits, cupboards full stuff, rooms dedicated to piles of things I don't wish to discard etc.
The secondary theme and the point of discussion was "why do most people we know have almost nothing from their past in their homes?"

I think it is to do with the ability to remember the past in detail.
I remember most things from the past. Some items I have are very evocative but I do not treat them as special or give them special protection.
As examples of that, I have a half broken sunglass that was used by my father to clip over his spectacles. I don't know exactly where it is (in the shed I think) but every time I encounter it, it briefly reminds me of my dad killed over 50 years ago.
Similarly there is a chrome plated gear wheel in one of my nuts and bolts pots that my father had made for one of his business projects.

The other day I was bored and had daytime TV on.
The programme was a BBC "beinashow" house hunting one. It was showing an "old" house that had the same horrible bricks laid in the front garden as nearly every minor town in the country has now instead of cobbles and kerb stones. It was described in the programme as beautiful.
Not for me it wasn't. Every vestige of anything old had been laundered out of the house to the extent it looked false and a pale imitation of a house from the past.

Similarly on another forum for older people a thread asked what books had been read by members when they were young.
One replied that he couldn't remember that far back.

The point of my ramblings is this: I don't think most people are able to remember much of their past at all, at least in the everyday detail not directly connected with their life.
They can use the "same old building" for years but not be able to sketch it or give much detail of it when asked.
Therefore most people are not able to make a rational decision about old English buildings because they are not able to remember them nor did they appreciate them ever.
When they are extolled with praise for a new building most of them cannot remember what was there before.
They are users. Their god is wanting more money. New is better than old. For them the past is over and the sooner it is forgotten the better.

 

[LadyArowana]

I am not particularly poor, and live in a small house so that I can live within my means, but having a few quid in my pocket means nothing if I am surrounded by grot, but we seem to be fed non stop the idea that standard of living is only related to disposable income. Nonsense.

I heartily agree. It's time for those with their hands on the national tiller realised that standard of living is not what counts - it's quality of living that matters.

Life would be so much better if everybody obeyed me. :evil:

I think it is possible for people to make that an individual choice though. There have been enough stories of lottery winners becoming instantly rich beyond their wildest dreams and subsequently ending up very unhappy for it to be obvious that disposable income is not really correlated with contentment.

 

[Flyfisher]

The point of my ramblings is this: I don't think most people are able to remember much of their past at all, at least in the everyday detail not directly connected with their life.

I think it depends on the definition of 'most people'. As a whole, I agree but I think there is a huge variation depending on the person's age. Young people have very little 'past' and their lives are all in the future, where the future often only stretches to next month. As we get older, more of our lives are in the past and there is more to remember. There is also a tendency to become less interested in embracing change in favour of sticking with the comforting things we know from our past. In many cases, we extend that to the comfort of things before our own lives.

But let's never forget that the things we enjoy from the past are only old and traditional today. In their time they were new and revolutionary and I've no doubt that there would have been lots of people who sneered when the first granite cobbles were laid for a driveway (carriageway?) instead of gravel or even plain earth. The people laying brick driveways today are merely continuing the human trend to invent new things, without which none of the old things we know and love would exist at all.

I've mentioned before that our lovely old timber-framed house was extensively butchered when it was given a Georgian makeover a few hundred years ago - something that would simply not be allowed today given the increasing instinct to preserve everything. Yet I doubt there is anyone alive today who would be prepared to live a truly authentic life in a truly authentic period house so we just pick and choose from old and new according to our own particular tastes. And what a privilege that we are able to do that - something that the vast majority of our ancestors couldn't even dream about. First world problems indeed!

 

[plasticpigeon]

Yet I doubt there is anyone alive today who would be prepared to live a truly authentic life in a truly authentic period house so we just pick and choose from old and new according to our own particular tastes. And what a privilege that we are able to do that - something that the vast majority of our ancestors couldn't even dream about. First world problems indeed!

I think that your comments represent the way things should be. Taking the best of the old and the best of the new. For me that would be the style and craftsmanship of the old with the cleanliness and efficiency of today. I see no reason to live a life that is authentic to the age of the property I live in for example, I never suggested it and don't see the relevance of that idea. Real progress is making life better by keeping what is good and improving what is not so good. It could be FF that you live in an area where people are discerning and a happy balance between old and new is maintained. Where I live progress is reinventing the wheel every 5 minutes.

 

[Penners]

we just pick and choose from old and new according to our own particular tastes. And what a privilege that we are able to do that - something that the vast majority of our ancestors couldn't even dream about.

Really? Wouldn't our ancestors have done exactly the same thing? We, of course, have a wider choice of old and new things to pick from, but I suspect that the principle hasn't changed.

 

[Penners]

Where I live progress is reinventing the wheel every 5 minutes.

Is "reinventing" the right word? Could we perhaps substitute "replacing with something infinitely more complex, yet no more satisfactory"?

 

[Flyfisher]

I think that your comments represent the way things should be. Taking the best of the old and the best of the new. For me that would be the style and craftsmanship of the old with the cleanliness and efficiency of today. I see no reason to live a life that is authentic to the age of the property I live in for example, I never suggested it and don't see the relevance of that idea. Real progress is making life better by keeping what is good and improving what is not so good. It could be FF that you live in an area where people are discerning and a happy balance between old and new is maintained. Where I live progress is reinventing the wheel every 5 minutes.

I basically agree with all of that but I was just trying to point out the subjectivity of it all. Who decides what is the 'best of the old and the best of the new'? I'd suggest that the vast majority of people would consider a cold, draughty house with wonky floors as the worst of the old and would far rather knock the whole thing down and build something brand new. That won't be a popular view on here of course but that's because we're a self-selected minority of period property enthusiasts.

As for progress in Birmingham, what about the rural tranquility that has been destroyed forever by the very buildings and industrialisation that many people now strive to conserve? There are no easy answers and it's impossible to find a compromise that will please everyone.

 

[Flyfisher]

we just pick and choose from old and new according to our own particular tastes. And what a privilege that we are able to do that - something that the vast majority of our ancestors couldn't even dream about.

Really? Wouldn't our ancestors have done exactly the same thing? We, of course, have a wider choice of old and new things to pick from, but I suspect that the principle hasn't changed.

Yes, you're right about the principle. I was thinking more about the proportion of people who had the means and wherewithal to apply those principles.

 

[Penners]

Yes, you're right

Would you mind repeating that phrase in front of Mrs P sometime?

I don't think it's a concept that she's familiar with.

 

[Flyfisher]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Full page advertisments in the EDP can be arranged if that would help. Just leave the brown envelope in the usual place. :wink:

 

[plasticpigeon]

Only my opinion!

 

[plasticpigeon]

boo hoo, and it's still happening where i live, to the place's detriment in my opinion. I'm not anti new, i am anti destruction of things that are good. Maybe some people were glad of the change though.

 

[Penners]

Full page advertisments in the EDP can be arranged if that would help. Just leave the brown envelope in the usual place.

Regrettably, that wouldn't get noticed by her. The only way to get her attention would be to place it on one of the myriad Facebook pages that she's taken to studying every half-hour on her blasted Nexus tablet (which 'bing-bongs' every time one of those bl**dy Facebook pages gets updated :evil.

The worst of it is that I bought her the flippin' device for Christmas! I'm hoping the bullet-hole in my foot will heal up soon.

 

[Flyfisher]

Sorry, can't help you there as I'm not on facebook (though I confess to sneaking an occasional peek via Mrs FF's page).

 

[Flyfisher]

Only my opinion!

Heartbreaking isn't it? But I can't see how to improve the current systems we have to regulate such things, short of implementing an immediate dictatorship with me in charge. It's all reminiscent of that old quotation about our system of government being the worst in the world . . . except for all the others.

 

[88v8]

boo hoo, and it's still happening where i live, to the place's detriment in my opinion. I'm not anti new, i am anti destruction of things that are good. Maybe some people were glad of the change though.

Quite probably. The architect, contractors, councillors pocketing the bribes, sneering sois disant intelligentsia, and the general supply of morons of which the world never seems lacking.

Ivor