Rue Britannia - vanishing icons

[Nemesis]

Scotsman today:

Rue Britannia: How icons are vanishing for ever


The pound note is fast becoming a scarce commodity

Published Date: 03 December 2008
By BEN BAILEY
BRITAIN'S identity is being lost as traditional icons like red telephone boxes, lollipop ladies and milkmen gradually disappear from its streets, research has found.

Residents believe the decline of services such as the village post office and greengrocer are changing the country's look and spirit.

They think traditions like fried breakfasts and Sunday being "a day of rest" are parts of the country's cultural landscape that are slowly fading away, according to a survey.

In a study of British iconic history, the rise of supermarkets, shopping centres and commercial chains are blamed for the loss of British institutions.

Consumers now buy their milk from supermarkets, although more than one in four say they miss the convenience of daily deliveries by milk floats.

And 58 per cent of those surveyed say the disappearance of local post offices leads directly to a loss of British identity.

The poll of 2,000 adults was conducted by Tango and shows that 41 per cent think the phasing-out of red phone boxes is a national loss.

The 2003 withdrawal of Concorde and the decline of the pound note, lollipop ladies, tearooms and the singing of the national anthem are all causes for concern, according to the study.

William Palin, the secretary of Save Britain's Heritage, blamed local authorities for the demise in traditional services. He said: "Local governments feel embarrassed by our cultural inheritance and are glad to see the back of those things, such as post offices and telephone boxes, which anchor us in our communities and the places we live.

"We have been campaigning for 30 years to prevent the destruction of our built heritage. It is our buildings and public spaces that define local distinctiveness and the special character of our towns and cities."

The study also found that many believe other homegrown icons, such as pubs, pantomimes and even the Royal Family, are under threat as the cultural landscape changes.

One in five cited the TV show Top of the Pops as a typically British institution they miss since the programme was culled for more modern alternatives.

But Peter Wilson, an architect from Napier University, Edinburgh, said that change was inevitable.

He said: "So much of the love of the past expressed in this study of iconic history is expressed through rose-tinted spectacles that ignore the downside. Polio and rickets were part of the same British tradition, and we have had no regrets about their disappearance."

 

[Pford75]

Slightly ironic that this appeared in the Scotsman....when devolution and the issue of Scottish independance have contributed hugely to the destruction of the UK in terms of identity.

 

[Nemesis]

Oddly, the 'comments' were suspended on the online version... given the rabid Englsh haters who are regulars, somewhat a pity for those of us who enjoy in a perverse sort of way, reading the ranting...

 

[Pford75]

Quite.....the BBC 'have your say' forum generates a similar level of debate.

But Peter Wilson, an architect from Napier University, Edinburgh, said that change was inevitable.

He said: "So much of the love of the past expressed in this study of iconic history is expressed through rose-tinted spectacles that ignore the downside. Polio and rickets were part of the same British tradition, and we have had no regrets about their disappearance."

Don't you just want to shake people like this? Making a comparison between the loss of red postboxes or public telephones is hardly the same as polio and rickets is it????? :x

 

[Nemesis]

Oh, P Wilson is a bit em... self-opinionated who makes a small amount of infamy for himself by writing this:

http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/news/1062/Wilson%27s_Weekly_Wrap%3A_Mea_Culpa%2C_Crisis%3F_What_Crisis%3F_and_Carrying_all_before_him.html

each week.

Also in Embra there is a tiny circle of those happy to provide at the drop of a hat a rentagob quote to suit a deadline and provide the 'alterative' take.

This morning a friend bumped into one of the Hootsmon's ace reporters out in the street seeking a story. They have papers to fill and really not a lot to write about.

The whole article was even longer.

 

[skier-hughes]

Out of interest when was the last time someone used a telephone box, be it red or whatever?
It must be about 8/9 years for me, since I had my first mobile.

 

[middi]

I should think that during the last ten years the few people that have used the red phone boxes was more as a latrine than to make a call.

 

[Nemesis]

Will tells me he was totally misquoted.

That's normal for the Hootsmon.

 

[worms]

Quite.....the BBC 'have your say' forum generates a similar level of debate.

In my experience the BBC forum is on a vastly different level from that in the Scotsman, which has an awful, car-crash fascination.

That's normal for the Hootsmon.

I think you've been reading the comments section too long!

Slightly ironic that this appeared in the Scotsman

The Hootsmon tag has arisen because in the minds of a certain (vocal) section of Scottish society it is viewed as being the mouthpiece of the colonial aggressor, so many would not find the Scotsman leading on this as being ironic at all!

With regard to red telephone boxes, the maddening thing is that BT don't want them, are willing to sell them off or lease them in-situ, but won't allow anyone that buys them to instal their own communications equipment in them. So if your village wants to retain the box, it can do so - but it can't instal its own public phone in it (connected to BT or any other network). For a fee they will allow you to take over the running of the BT box, but the fee is pretty uncompetitive.

 

[Lime]

From the original quote

In a study of British iconic history, the rise of supermarkets, shopping centres and commercial chains are blamed for the loss of British institution

I think it is "globalisation", not a lot to do with supermarkets, but a lot to do with commercial chains and shopping centres.
Most shopping centres "improved" in the last 20 years look exactly the same.
Same paving, same street furniture, the lot all like the other.
Combine that with the almost universal shop chain frontages and you could be anywhere in the UK.

The last red phone box I used was in Pinner in 1973 and stank of urine and vomit.
The phone conversation was interrupted on a regular basis as cars roared by as the door was forced open fighting with my foot to allow access to fresh air.
Like the red buses, red phone boxes look good but were crap to use.

 

[Nemesis]

I think you've been reading the comments section too long!

I think there is general agreement amongst those I know who are reasonably regular in the paper itself (even if at times under another name) that if you want to be quoted accurately you pick who you speak to, be careful what you say, and try for the 'giving your opinion' piece where usually it's not hacked about too badly, especially if you get your copy in at two minutes to five! A press release is useful, as some employed there simply print it more or less as is.

It's odd though - the basis for the article appeared in other papers a week or two back. Basically it's a bit of advertising for Tango drink, which carried out the survey.

However, a friend really did meet a leading Scotsman journo wandering around the Old Town yesterday actually seeking stories instead of sitting cosily by his phone and computer: times are hard, obviously, and news in short supply! So a long rehash of something not quite news fills pages.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk/Rue-Britannia-How-icons-are.4754330.jp

 

[Nemesis]

Still, for those who want to own one (and many do):

http://www.englishphoneboxes.com/


A number are of course listed.

http://www.icons.org.uk/theicons/collection/the-phone-box

http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/News/newsitem.aspx?pid=6&Item=art34




http://www.babergh-south-suffolk.gov.uk/Babergh/Home/News/2005/February/BABERGH+ENGAGES+BT+TO+REPLACE+LISTED+PHONE+BOX.htm

BABERGH

ENGAGES BT TO REPLACE LISTED PHONE BOX
Summary
Babergh District Council is to seek to take enforcement action against BT in a bid to make the telecomms giant return a listed phone box in the village of Bildeston.



Babergh District Council is to seek to take enforcement action against BT in a bid to make the telecomms giant return a listed phone box in the village of Bildeston.



The traditional red phone box was removed by BT after it was damaged during an attempted robbery of the village’s Post Office. Babergh has since learnt that the company has no intention of returning the original kiosk nor to replace it with any more modern form of installation.



The Bildeston phone box is of a type known as the ‘K6’ or ‘Jubilee’ kiosk and was designed in 1936 by Sir Giles Gilbert Scott. Constructed in cast iron, it is the best known traditional kiosk. Some 3000 were installed before 1939.



When BT announced their kiosk replacement programme in the mid- 1980s there was a public outcry against their removal. This led to a nationwide programme of listing those remaining K6s that were built prior to 1939. The kiosk at Bildeston met the necessary criteria and was confirmed as a listed building in 1987.



Babergh is writing to BT to explain its requirements for the repair and return of the original red box.



Michael Collins, Babergh’s Conservation Officer, said “this is an essential part of the character of the village and is both a satisfactory neighbour to the surrounding historic buildings as well as a useful resource for visitors and residents alike.”

 

[Flyfisher]

With regard to red telephone boxes, the maddening thing is that BT don't want them,

I seem to recall that BT wanted to scrap phone boxes, or at least a large proportion of them, because they cost more to maintain than the revenue generated, but were prevented from doing so. Something to do with the privatisation conditions I think.

Last time I used one it had two big buttons labelled 'A' and 'B' (OK, slight exaggeration, but it's nearly 20 year ago).

I'd quite like to have one in the garden, but they're pretty expensive to buy.

 

[DaveBrigg]

The loss of phone boxes, traditional village pubs and stores, post offices etc is for purely commercial reasons. They are things which most people seem to want, and yet not enough people use them for them to be financially sustainable. There are still a lot of public call boxes around, but most lose money and are only kept because BT are required to, I think for reasosn of safety rather than because they look nice. I was sad when Top of the Pops was dropped, but then realised that I hadn't watched it for about ten years.
Village churches fit in this category too. Ours needed over £50 000 work last year, but serves an average congregation of about 20. There would be uproar if it was deconsecrated, but many of those who complained would not have set foot inside from one Christmas to the next. Fortunately there were enough granst available to fund most of the work.
I've heard more than one friend explain how sad it is that the small shops are being replaced by supermarket chains, and then mention that they don't actually use these shops because the parking is difficult and they are more expensive.

 

[Nemesis]

Red phone boxes - I think that many are still around because they are listed. They are the sort of traditional street furniture which do make for many people's views of traditional places.

I do use public call boxes at times - and in rural areas mobiles don't always work.

However, many village shops are combined with Post Offices. The PO part makes the shop viable, but the loss of Post Offices has much to do with the EU as far as I understand.

http://www.freescotlandparty.org/Press%20Releases/29%2004%2007%20Post%20Office%20closures%20EU%20to%20blame.htm

The loss of these services makes life in rural areas increasingly difficult for the less than wealthy, and those of us who would like not to have a several mile round trip to post a parcel.

The taxpayer does, of course, help fund grant aid to churches, although as with so many historic buildings there's not enough to go round. (All that Lottery cash that being spent on the Olympics too...)

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.9238

Once churches are out of use, there are many voluntary bodies which will look after them, as aFriend of Friendless Churches we have just taken on another, at Thornton le Beans.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1059

http://www.friendsoffriendlesschurches.org.uk/indexmain.htm

 

[Flyfisher]

The loss of these services makes life in rural areas increasingly difficult for the less than wealthy, and those of us who would like not to have a several mile round trip to post a parcel.

I've often wondered why Royal mail doesn't offer a letter/parcel collection service to those in outlying rural areas. You'd think that having gone to the trouble of visiting most addresses in the country most days, if only to deliver junk mail, they would want to get maximum 'added value' for their effort.

 

[Moo]

That is a quite brilliant idea. It should be put to whoever is in charge of the Post Office.

 

[Nemesis]

I don't think our postie, who works long and hard as it is, would be too keen. He'd have to weigh and then take cash for parcels, cos not everyone has a computer and can print out the postage label, then return to the sorting office to deliver. It would slow his round down even more. Also not much help to people who aren't in when the delivery is made - ours varies from around 12 to 3.30 pm, depending on various factors.


Because he would have cash in the van, he could be vulnerable to robbery.

There are firms which will collect parcels, but it's not cost effective for some parcelsand small packages. It's again far less convenient than a local PO.

http://www.parcelforce.com/portal/pw/home/

Company history

For over 14 years, Parcelforce Worldwide has provided a vital link for British businesses needing to send express shipments internationally and in the UK. We have a long history as part of the Royal Mail Group and pride ourselves on the dedication of our people to deliver high quality services for over 30,000 customers across the country.

 

[DaveBrigg]

Our Post Office was closed down earlier this year, despite protests, letters to MP's etc, which as Nememsis points out has affected the shop in which it was based. We used it as often as we could, even for foreign currency, but we now have a nomadic post office service which opens for a few hours each week in a local pub. Not much use for anyone who works during the day. Since it was the publican's offer to host this service which allowed the original office to close, the pub itself is now under threat due to a boycott by locals, most of whom now drink down the road.

I've solved the Olympics vs Heritage cash conundrum by offering to open our house as an olympic venue in 2012. The specialist sport? Draughts.

 

[Flyfisher]

Perhaps if Royal Mail hadn't introduced complicated new rules over package sizes then it would have remained quite simple for people to weigh their letters or parcels and stick on the appropriate value of stamps. The Postie could then act as a simple mobile letter box, no need to actually do anything or carry any cash, just drop off the collected items next time he's in the office. Simple.

Of course it wouldn't suit everyone but it would surely help anyone who is normally at home all day and anyone who goes to work can probably put their stuff (suitably stamped of course) into their employer's daily postal collection.

It's a service industry and the successful players are the ones that make their customer's lives easier. Hardly radical stuff.