RSJ in 1898 Party/Seperating wall and noise.

[Karsten]

Hi,
Asking for some advice.
What can you do when a developer just goes ahead and does things without Party Wall notices and uses vibrating tools to recess sockets switches wiring etc in a separating wall?
He has a private build control and his extension has been signed off, but the two RSJ's haven't. He's still going to rent it out though.
Aparently it doesn't matter that the RSJs were put in in Sept 2009 and not notified to the council until 25 Jan 2010.
The private build control won't tell me anything and it seems his son was one of the builders mates?

The wall is 1898 two brick wide with old 1 1/2 thick 'lime'? plaster. ?Used to be fine and didn't hear my neighbour before he died 2 yrs ago.
Now I hear people talking next door and because the stairs are now resting on the 2 RSJs inserted into the separating, I hear people going up and down the stairs. The stairs previously rested on two internal walls.
The groundfloor is now one room and I hear anything. where before the inner walls and hall blocked most sounds.

Because I didn't know anything about the RS?J until the day they were installed, the party walls surveyors said they couldn't do anything as it was built.. likewise with the extention..
Because the guy didn't notify the council about the internal works and was 'let off' when he sent in an amendment in Jan.. there isn't anything I can do.
He only needs build control to sign off the RSJ if he wants to sell, not rent and after two years all is forgiven anyways?


Does anyone one know why a 1898 wall can lose its ability to block sound when all the plaster is hammered off and then replastered?
My plaster is now 'blown.. makes hollow noise. Parts were before but now its most of the wall. Is this part of the reason?
What regualtions deal with recessing scokets and switches into a separating wall?
Build reg.s say not to make deep recessecessions but what is deep?
Are there any sites or egulations on using vibrating tools on victorian walls?
The RSJ's were put in by removing 1m2 of wall one brick deep then turning one brick on its end with a stone pad the width of the beam the rest of the bricks were piled back in and then it looked like cement was buttered in between.
The wall has no faoundation on clay substrata..
Shouldn't a spreader plate or lintel have been used instead of a single pad stone?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thinking of trying an injunction to get him to conform to current build reg.s part E1 and E3 as he has changed the existing building so much
and asking for a stress anaalysis and that he not sell or rent it until build control sign off the internal works..
but I gather he has 2 yrs to ask for a sign off notice?

The Party Wall act is a joke.. if builders ignore and build things in a week .. you have to react fast before they finish or no part wall act surveyor will take on the job without payement.

 

[Pford75]

Thinking of trying an injunction to get him to conform to current build reg.s part E1 and E3 as he has changed the existing building so much
and asking for a stress anaalysis and that he not sell or rent it until build control sign off the internal works..
but I gather he has 2 yrs to ask for a sign off notice?

Sounds like you have an unreasonable developer and a council that is slow to respond. Won't be much comfort, but I suspect that this combination of pressures is not unique.

I'm not a legal expert, but my father is a solicitor and we ourselves have been instructing solicitors for the past 12 months to deal with an unreasonable developer. So here are my thoughts, but the key suggestion is to engage a solicitor and get an expert view.

1. I don't believe you can force compliance to building regs (only the council can do that).
2. You need to demonstrate 'actionable cause', for an injunction or to issue a claim for damages. This actionable cause could be as a result of their working causing damage to your property, loss of amenity (noise pollution etc.) It is not sufficient that they may have failed to comply with regulations....(again that is a question for the enforcing authorities)...you must demonstrate your own 'loss'.
3. These things can be very frustrating and I know from personal experience that there is a tendancy to list every 'transgression' or problem as part of your complaint. Unless you have an endless pit of money you are willing to spend on legal fees, I would suggest avoiding this route. It's hard, but you are best served if you can 'let go' of the 'small' things and really focus on 1 or 2 big problems.
4. From the sounds of your description, it would seem to me that the most likely focus areas are noise pollution and structural damage. Noise pollution would probably have been easier to prove during the build and if everything is now complete, ask yourself whether it is 'worse than before' or 'unreasonable'. I can completely sympathise with your situation, but if the levels of noise have increased but remain within 'acceptable' limits, it will be difficult for you to seek redress.

5. Structural damage is a possibility. Not necessarily now, but it may be that a 'rigid' RSJ in a wall that is used to 'flexing' over the years could cause problems. I really have no idea on this, but either some expert advice will be along here soon...or you should consider engaging a structural engineer specialising in old buildings.

6. One final thought - you mention that the previous neighbour died recently. Can we assume they were elderly? It could simply be the case that your new neighbours have a more active lifestyle and generate more noise...not that anything has changed fundamentally?

7. I would certainly consider forcing redress on certain issues before sale. But again...I don't believe you can force them to get building regs (although the purchasers solicitors should insist on this). You might want to make sure that purchasers are aware of the dispute between you. As a first step, if the property comes on to the market, you could write to the vendor and formally request that they mention the 'dispute' between you in any 'sellers questionnaire'. Send this via recorded delivery and keep a copy. If they fail to do so, then it will be much easier to pursue in future

 

[Schoolmarm]

Have you spoken to your own insurance company? Have you got legal expenses cover?

If they have damaged your house by their actions then surely your insurance company should be involved.

 

[Stephen]

Pford75 gives some excellent advice.

A couple of points to add.

If you decide to take matters further you will need 'expert' opinion. On the matter of noise pollution it may be necessary to get an acoustics expert in. Without access into the neighbouring property there may be a limit on how useful this could be, but worth a chat with someone in the first instance.

On the matter of the basic damage to your property a building surveyor should be able to prepare a report identifying damage and giving an independent opinion on whether it is likely to have been caused by the works (or perhaps pre-dated the works). Remember the expert is to be independent and must reach his/her own view. Just because you say certain areas of plaster have been damaged by the works does not mean the expert will agree or that the expert can come to a definitive opinion now that we are after the event as such.

As for whether the RSJ could be causing long term damage you would need the view of an engineer experienced in this type/age of property. Whilst several of us in the professions may have concerns about such interventions in old terraced houses I am not aware of any specific evidence or viewpoint that would necessarily help you. The fact is that such works are not uncommon and in the vast majority of such houses there is no evidence of major problems being caused (or at least none that I am aware of).

On the matter of insurance do not confuse your normal building insurance with legal cost cover. These are two separate matters entirely. I doubt you have a claim on your building insurance, but you could make enquiries of your insurance.

The issue of legal costs cover is a separate part of a policy and is simply cover for legal costs in any legal dispute you may have. If you do have this cover ring them to see if they can help. Usually they will want a report from an expert indicating that you have a better than 50% chance of success and only then will they usually take the case on.

It is true that the Party Wall Act cannot be enforced retrospecitvely and this legislation may no longer be helpful to you, but that does not change the basic principle that if the works of your neighbour have caused damage you may have cause for action. Take heed of what Pford75 says and get some legal advice.

Regards

Stephen

 

[Karsten]

i have spoken to free lawyers and the advice is always.. nothing to be done until people move in and then you can contact Heath Enviromental officers.
In my experience lawyers just mean expense. Did my own divorce and law isn't hard to research.
The hard bit is finding anything that covers your situation.
I have emailed my objections to the owner and the build control inspector has not inspected the RSJs but the house walls are plastered already.
To inspect the walls he would have to knock off the plaster and remove the plasterboarding around the beams.
That's why he isn't selling I think but renting and is planning to wait two years so build control won't matter.

I'm complaining about the private build control to CICs and I think I will be asking the council why they allowed an amendment 4 months after the works had been done and I had been complaining. The works were clearly illegal for 3 months. But as it was under private build control they don't want the hassle.

I do believe a judge can impose an order. If I can show that the council and build control aren't doing their job.
The fact that no party wall notice was given is illegal too.

I'm using the case law of Stannard v Picher, where a tennant did force a neighbour to change his flooring.
The point is that I will suffer an amenity loss due to noise.
What I will be asking for is that the developer complies with the applicable requirements of Passage of sound - E1 and E3 or, where it did not comply with any such requirement, is no more unsatisfactory in relation to that requirement than before the work was carried out.
That will be hard to prove but I was hoping if I ask for an injunction the judge will look badly upon the fact that no party wall notice was given and the works completed before notification was given.

Before the inner walls broke up the sound and hindered the passage of sound. Before the stairs rested on the inner walls so no reverbation sound were passed to the separating wall. (E3).

My argument is that the 100yr old design has changed as have the walls now that they have deep recesses in them and due to vibrating tools being used on them.

What I want from the judge is a judgment saying that current building regs apply.
I believe if I get that the developer would have to sound proof better.
My old neighbour was a quiet gu, despite being a drummer in a band. But I never heard him talking on the phone or watching TV or listening to the radio.

Other people in the street don't hear their neighbours that way either.
You hear kids scream laugh etc and when couples quarrel and shout but not everyday talking or sounds.

I'm looking for information on how walls can let through so much sound.. after having all the plaster knocked off and being replastered.
I think its something to do with the structual works and the tools used.
Also the echo effect is big part of it too..
There is at most just 2 bricks between the houses now so if someone makes a noise anywhere on the ground floor it can be heard in nearly all of my house.
The same is not true if I make a noise as my house has two inner walls around the stairs a door into my kitchen and still has the hallway.

I am going to spend the £150 to lodge an injunction, but need to get the legal wording right if it fails at least things will have been logged so if theree is a lot of noise later I can refer back to it.
I don't think a judge woul award costs to the guy initially.
anyone ever lodge an injunction before?