roof timbers - to reveal or not?

[jess marley]

In the bedrooms here, our ceilings are a novel construction of manky old hardboard covered with embossed vinyl wallpaper. They are also quite, but not exceptionally low, at 7ft 4 in.
In considering their future, I've been footling around in the loft today, and was wondering about the possibility of lifting the new ceilings back up into the loft space to
A: gain ceiling height,
and B: be able to see the timber structure of the roof better.
This would not incur the loss of any original fabric...but is not as the rooms were originally conceived....any thoughts?
Also, were I to proceed, how would I go about constucting the ceiling re insulation etc.?

 

[jess marley]

No, it's no good, can find nothing in archived topics about how one would go about making the kind of ceiling I'm after, esp re. building regs etc, help please.

 

[DaveBrigg]

I can understand the wish to remove the hardboard. If it was me though, I would look for wiring in the loft which may be clipped to the top of the ceiling joists, and would presumably need to be moved before putting anything on top. If you were putting, for example, plasterboard on top of the joists, some means would need to be devised to allow you to walk around in the roof space afterwards. I had a go at putting plasterboard between joists in the kitchen, under a limecrete bathroom floor which drops bits onto the cooker. The joists are not square or parallel though, and I gave up trying to cut pieces to the right size and shape. Plan B is yet to materialise...

 

[NT]

Flooring type wood of some sort would be the thing to use, not PB. Its not going to meet BR either way round, but replacing the flimsy hardboard with chunky wood will give it more time in a fire, which is what counts. If you need better fire performance, intumescent paint or varnish is an option that would considerably extend its fire rating. Its available in clear as well as other colours.

Wiring on top of the joists would simply have the wood slid under it.


NT

 

[jess marley]

Thanks both, but what I meant was getting the ceiling RIGHT up, ie, to the ridge, how do people make a ceiling which meets building regs in all those barn conversions?
And the other thing was that where one might expect to see joists running across the floor of the roof space, we have a sort of grid of timbers dividing the area into about nine squares, why?

 

[NT]

Thats one of those structures one could spend ages just looking at.

Thanks both, but what I meant was getting the ceiling RIGHT up, ie, to the ridge, how do people make a ceiling which meets building regs in all those barn conversions?

existing roof, ventilation gap, insulation, plasterboard.

And the other thing was that where one might expect to see joists running across the floor of the roof space, we have a sort of grid of timbers dividing the area into about nine squares, why?

Does it by any chance use shorter timbers than full length? Why dont you post a pic of the floor joist grid as well.


NT

 

[Nemesis]

Actually - seven four isn't really terribly low, I think ours are about that in the 18th century part of the house. the 19th century parts are higher.

 

[Penners]

I agree with Nemesis. That's not particularly low.

However, if you're really desperate for more height, how about jacking the whole ceiling structure up to a higher level? I did this with one ceiling in my first renovation "opportunity" about 30 years ago. It was a listed building, and I got LBC to do it.

Unusually, the existing framework of king joist/common joists rested in open sockets on top of the roof plate. As the building was a C14th hall house, I surmised that this was because the upstairs ceiling had been added to the house some time after it was built. Despite this, the ceiling height was barely 6 ft.

I knocked up a supporting framework underneath the joists, to tie the whole lot together, then used six Acrows to jack the whole kaboodle up by about 9 inches, and bolted it to the rafters.

It was still a low ceiling, but at least I reduced the concussion risk.

 

[jess marley]

Will post more pics, just need kids to go to sleep....bloody half term.

 

[jess marley]

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t146/jessmarley1/rooftimbers003.jpg
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t146/jessmarley1/rooftimbers007.jpg
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t146/jessmarley1/rooftimbers008.jpg
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t146/jessmarley1/rooftimbers012.jpg
Sorry, it's hard to stand away from the floor to get a good picture, esp from the top of a wobbly step ladder with a couple of glasses of wine contributing to the atmosphere. But there we are.
Each 'square' is approx 5x5, and there are, on closer inspection only 7 joists which tie the roof structure together within this front section (approx 50x17ft) which seems a bit minimal....but the house is fantastically solid so no worries there. I suppose no-one felt the need for more as floor in the loft space had no weight to bear...apart from those pesky Borrowers of course.
Is any of this normal? Should my roof be traversed by multiple joists? Or what?

 

[NT]

I looked at the pics, but TBH I cant make much out in them.

I'd agree that 7'4 isnt low, more normal. 5'9 - 6' is low, and 5'4 very low imho.


NT

 

[Penners]

from the top of a wobbly step ladder with a couple of glasses of wine

Try putting the glasses of wine down before you climb the stepladder.

It's certainly not unusual for bedroom ceiling joists not to be very beefy. I can't remember the age of your house, but it may well have been built when people had far fewer belongings than nowadays. So the concept of using the attic for storage space wasn't considered important.

As to the type of structure, I don't know how unusual it is. But it might simply have been the norm for the builder who built your house.

 

[jess marley]

Not very clear is it... I'm not really going to be able to make any sense of it till we take the hardboard down, and it REALLY has to stop raining for a couple of weeks before I'll be happy to do that.
Thanks anyway.