Rointe Electric Radiators

[Potheen1]

Hi All

The thought of another winter without heating, other of course than my trusty wood burner, is not something I relish. Our house is a 17C fenland cottage with a georgian extension, no floors align and getting pipework around for a water based heating system is set to be a true challenge. We have are in the sticks so no gas so options of oil or Butane would be the obvious first choices.

I wonder if any fellow period property custodians have any experience of Rointe electric radiators or similar, the ease of installation and relative controllability make some sense on paper; but in reality would I be better sticking with tradition.

Thanks in advance for your advice

 

[Lime]

Potheen1 I just had a look at Rointe radiators here:
http://www.dealec.co.uk/acatalog/rointe_k_series_radiators.html

My first thought when reading your post was that electrical heating is expensive.
My second thought when reading my link was Rointe radiators are absurdly expensive for what they are.
No matter how the heater is constructed it is always only going to emit the energy it consumes.
No simple electrical space heater is more efficient than another, they are all the same.
For instance an electric fan heater with a rating of 1000 watts will give out the same amount of heat as a 1000 watt oil filled radiator.
Electric storage radiators are no different, the energy they consume is liberated to the building 100% eventually.
Some forms of electric heating such as electric wall panel radiators are less efficient because a percentage of their heat is immediately lost through the wall.

While I can understand that "Digital sensor detects room temperature within +/- 0.5ºC" sounds impressive, in a large older house the thermostat is unlikely to operate very often with the rather small power output of 1600 watts.
What the 330 watt heater is used for I cannot imagine as it is so tiny, a toilet perhaps.

 

[JoceAndChris]

My understanding is that electric storage heaters make use of cheaper electricity at night?

Potheen - I fear for your electricity bill. ISTR ours was £1000 just for the winter we decided not to use the Rayburn much. That was to run one plug in oil filled radiator (pretty much all day long) and occasional use of three other fan heaters - bedroom - kitchen - TV room.

Despite that things froze in the kitchen.

Have you taken steps to insulate your house? I feel for you.

 

[Lime]

My understanding is that electric storage heaters make use of cheaper electricity at night?

Yes they do but I made the point that a 1000 watts of electricity gives a 1000 watts of heat no matter what type of heater is in use.
I wasn't discussing running costs.

Any appliance, not just storage radiators, will be cheaper to run if using cheap rate electricity.
The downside to having a cheap rate is that its day rate is much more expensive than standard rate.

 

[AMc]

My understanding is that electric storage heaters make use of cheaper electricity at night?

Yes they do but I made the point that a 1000 watts of electricity gives a 1000 watts of heat no matter what type of heater is in use.
I wasn't discussing running costs.

Any appliance, not just storage radiators, will be cheaper to run if using cheap rate electricity.
The downside to having a cheap rate is that its day rate is much more expensive than standard rate.

The difference with my provider is only a penny a unit more expensive on peak and off peak is just over half price. The E7 standing rate is a bit more expensive but only 4 pence per day.
http://www.goodenergy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/good-energy-domestic-tariif-tc.pdf

The problem I always had with Economy7 storage heaters is you had to estimate how much heat to 'load' for the following day which meant you used the direct heaters if it was colder than you expected. I also found they made rooms unpleasantly hot first thing in the morning but you were freezing by midnight (at the end of the cycle). As a night owl at the time this was really irritating - woken up sweating and freezing in the evenings. We were probably using them wrong but they seemed to suit early to rise, early to bed householders!

It is possible to get Economy 10 and 18 in some areas - the primary disadvantage I found with E10 was that it was a separate switched supply - so an appliance wired into it couldn't be powered outside the off peak hours.

Potheen - if you have the funds and the right environment then a wind turbine on a Feed In Tarrif would significantly reduce the cost of electric heating as you get to 'keep' what you produce as well as being paid for its generation.

 

[Flyfisher]

- if you have the funds and the right environment then a wind turbine on a Feed In Tarrif would significantly reduce the cost of electric heating as you get to 'keep' what you produce as well as being paid for its generation.

Just a daft and off-topic thought, but since the feed-in tariffs 'rig' the market prices, has anyone considered the economics of using an electric motor to turn a wind generator when the wind isn't blowing?

I realise it won't be energetically effective but if the motor electricity costs £x/unit and the feed-in tarrif pays £4x/unit (or whatever it is) then it might be economically effective, depending on the efficiency of the motor and generator. :shock:

 

[Lime]

When I first read your post, Flyfisher, I wondered what you were on.

However, having read it over several times, I now think I understand your idea.
The problem, perhaps only minor, is that you would need a standard supply (i.e. non-feed-in) to supply the motor.
Knowing farmers the way I do, I cannot recall seeing in fields any tractors with long belts driving wind turbines in the many wind farms around here.
So it must be a non-starter.
Sorry for having blown the wind out of your sails.

 

[Flyfisher]

I wasn't really thinking about the huge turbines, though something larger than a rooftop turbine . . . but I was merely considering an electric motor to turn the generator. Now you've introduced the idea of using a tractor, or similar, it could be a whole different ball game. :lol:

I think you're right about needing a separate meter for an electric-motor system though - it occurred to me later that the FIT payments are only made for surplus electricity exported to the grid, which of course couldn't happen. However, we used to have two meters and two separate accounts at our house, so that slight technical point should be easy to overcome. :wink:

But, a tractor would not require a separate meter. Indeed, tractor-mounted generators are frequently advertised in the machinery mags. Now, does anyone know how to calculate the cost per unit of electricity from a generator driven by an old MF135 tractor running on red diesel at 79p per litre? :lol:

 

[AMc]

Now, does anyone know how to calculate the cost per unit of electricity from a generator driven by an old MF135 tractor running on red diesel at 79p per litre? :lol:

A litre of heating oil is 10KWh of raw energy (based on the Green Building Bible data) - given that you can apparently run oil central heating on diesel then that would be a sensible benchmark. That's about the same cost per unit as economy 7 7.9p per unit in my neck of the woods less the inefficiency of the generator and ignoring capital costs and running overheads + the irritation of running a generator in order to defraud an already generous scheme...

FWIW my suggestion was serious - if you have the right environment then a wind generator would offset the high running cost of electric heating esp. as it will generate energy at times when you need to offset heat loss due to draughts.

You get paid for what you generate regardless of if you export it + you get paid for exporting a surplus which would offset your consumption when the wind isn't blowing.
http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/FITs/principles/

Still the capital costs are quite high even if the running costs could be lower.