Hi I have over a few years refitted the rim locks and door handles on the doors in my Edwardian house ...Could you help me track down a company that now supplies good quality keeps in different sizes there was a fantastic shop in Manchester that sold them but has now ceased to trade its always more difficult to find the keeps as most of the rim locks I have aquired have been off doors that have been thrown out ..Many thanks.
- Thread starter pj38
- Start date
Good question, and well timed pj38.
I've just repaired and fitted a couple of scrapped doors (*), and am looking for rim locks &c.
I keep running into the same 'new' types of locks & keeps. They're either the "Davenport Rim Lock", variously in brass or cast iron, or the range pressed steel Union Rim Locks.
The modern pressed steel locks & keeps look too flimsy.
This Davenport lock comes up time and time again, sold by a whole range of hardware dealers. It's a nice enough looking lock, although I am looking for something plainer. It's disappointing to see that everyone is offering exactly the same range of products, but not surprising.
This link is a perfect example of what I find everywhere (keeps or rim latches near bottom of page):
http://www.tryrelics.co.uk/catalogue/I/03
Apart from hunting around reclamation places, the only other place I've seen a decent range of locks and keeps is on Ebay. And guess what I keep seeing on Ebay? Yes, the same range of 'Davenport' locks being sold, and often dearer than elsewhere.
Architectural salvage places may have what we're looking for. I'm thinking about those places that specialise in stripping and selling reclaimed doors. I wonder what they do with the lovely old locks that they take off the doors? Probably keyless, perhaps missing the keep which got 'lost' or chucked away. I've got a horrible feeling that many of these locks get binned, because there's not much of a market or profit in refurbishing and selling them.
I've got mixed feelings about using salvaged stuff. A lot of period building are being either demolished or stripped of their original features. Perhaps some of these things were inappropriate later additions that were spoiling the building, but that must be a tiny percentage. My policy is to use reclaimed stuff as a last resort, if I really can't get new.
*
My house is a case in point - all the internal doors had been removed and possibly scrapped by a previous owner, and had been replaced with ugly glass panelled doors. Getting new panelled doors to fit is difficult -they'd have to be bespoke. A neighbouring property, almost identical to mine, has been gutted, and doors were put in skips.
I've just repaired and fitted a couple of scrapped doors (*), and am looking for rim locks &c.
I keep running into the same 'new' types of locks & keeps. They're either the "Davenport Rim Lock", variously in brass or cast iron, or the range pressed steel Union Rim Locks.
The modern pressed steel locks & keeps look too flimsy.
This Davenport lock comes up time and time again, sold by a whole range of hardware dealers. It's a nice enough looking lock, although I am looking for something plainer. It's disappointing to see that everyone is offering exactly the same range of products, but not surprising.
This link is a perfect example of what I find everywhere (keeps or rim latches near bottom of page):
http://www.tryrelics.co.uk/catalogue/I/03
Apart from hunting around reclamation places, the only other place I've seen a decent range of locks and keeps is on Ebay. And guess what I keep seeing on Ebay? Yes, the same range of 'Davenport' locks being sold, and often dearer than elsewhere.
Architectural salvage places may have what we're looking for. I'm thinking about those places that specialise in stripping and selling reclaimed doors. I wonder what they do with the lovely old locks that they take off the doors? Probably keyless, perhaps missing the keep which got 'lost' or chucked away. I've got a horrible feeling that many of these locks get binned, because there's not much of a market or profit in refurbishing and selling them.
I've got mixed feelings about using salvaged stuff. A lot of period building are being either demolished or stripped of their original features. Perhaps some of these things were inappropriate later additions that were spoiling the building, but that must be a tiny percentage. My policy is to use reclaimed stuff as a last resort, if I really can't get new.
*
My house is a case in point - all the internal doors had been removed and possibly scrapped by a previous owner, and had been replaced with ugly glass panelled doors. Getting new panelled doors to fit is difficult -they'd have to be bespoke. A neighbouring property, almost identical to mine, has been gutted, and doors were put in skips.
And if anyone knows of where to get mortice locks (to meet insurance requirements) for thin Victorian doors I'd be interested to hear. I was quoted £200 by a locksmith for fitting one to our door and even then he wasn't convinced the door could cope with it as it's held together by filler! I saw on another post here the idea of fitting a mortice lock within a block of wood fixed to the door which seems like an excellent idea but well beyond our DIY skills so we'd probably end up paying a large sum to a carpenter. Our door is probably in need of replacement really but being a non-standard size, we'd have to have one made - also expensive....
Frank Allart make good quality brass rim locks.
Also look at
http://www.dalbybrass.com/locks/Locks.htm#3
http://www.inbrass.co.uk/acatalog/shop.html
http://www.tbks.co.uk
http://www.doorhandles.co.uk
Or search around via Google
For insurance purposes you can use a more modern rim lock? They dont look "period" but a decent one (Banham for instance) is both a good lock and not bad looking.
Also look at
http://www.dalbybrass.com/locks/Locks.htm#3
http://www.inbrass.co.uk/acatalog/shop.html
http://www.tbks.co.uk
http://www.doorhandles.co.uk
Or search around via Google
For insurance purposes you can use a more modern rim lock? They dont look "period" but a decent one (Banham for instance) is both a good lock and not bad looking.
How thick is the door stile?
I wouldn't try fitting a mortice lock into a stile much less than 1 3/4 inches thick, as it would not be strong enough.
My internal doors are just 1 inch thick, and the external doors I've seen are between 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 thick.
Luckily my modern 'Victorian' front door was thick enough for me to put in a 5 lever mortice lock. Before that there was just a broken Yale type lock that was hanging off. The previous owners might as well have just left the door open, for all the good the lock was doing.
The modern night latches are convenient but the one I've got looks out of place:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/67547...atches/Yale-77-Traditional-Night-Latch-Bronze
However, as the hole was already in the door it was easy to just fit a replacement :/
Of course, I still need to remember to operate the mortice lock too when I leave.
On the back door, which I installed myself, I fitted a nice brass rim lock, and a 5 lever mortice lock for security. Again, it just latches when closed and I have to remember to lock it. N ot really convenient for a main entry/exit door.
If any burglars are reading, I never forget, and have a very vicious guard dog.
:mrgreen:
I wouldn't try fitting a mortice lock into a stile much less than 1 3/4 inches thick, as it would not be strong enough.
My internal doors are just 1 inch thick, and the external doors I've seen are between 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 thick.
Luckily my modern 'Victorian' front door was thick enough for me to put in a 5 lever mortice lock. Before that there was just a broken Yale type lock that was hanging off. The previous owners might as well have just left the door open, for all the good the lock was doing.
The modern night latches are convenient but the one I've got looks out of place:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/67547...atches/Yale-77-Traditional-Night-Latch-Bronze
However, as the hole was already in the door it was easy to just fit a replacement :/
Of course, I still need to remember to operate the mortice lock too when I leave.
On the back door, which I installed myself, I fitted a nice brass rim lock, and a 5 lever mortice lock for security. Again, it just latches when closed and I have to remember to lock it. N ot really convenient for a main entry/exit door.
If any burglars are reading, I never forget, and have a very vicious guard dog.
:mrgreen:
Thanks to all that replied ... Really what i'm trying to track down are the Keeps that fit onto the door frames I have plenty of the rim locks as over the years mainly from thrown out doors in skips, I have obtained them .I have used up all the keeps that I had originally.My dad had about 10 of them on a string hanging up in his workshop and I remember seeing them for years before finally at an age I figured out what they were for( not sure why I'm telling you this lol) and over the years I have moved and used them in houses. I have about 8 or 9 of the rim locks all needing cleaning that are spare at the moment.I have used all the door knobs lovely beehive style ones and all free surprising what you find knocking about and being thrown out..... So its the keeps I want ..Many thanks
Are the keeps you're after brass or iron?
I posted a link to an example of the meagre offerings that I've found on the web, and there were a couple of iron keeps on there.
The first keep is of a style I've seen with this 'Davenport' rim lock that seems to be everywhere.
compare with:
What I'm trying to say, is that there must be very few people making the 'proper' iron locks and keeps today, along with all the other traditional ironmongery. There's plenty of cheap, flimsy, painted steel stuff that looks so out of place in a period property though.
I did find some nice iron butt hinges that were almost exactly the same as some very old (broken) examples I removed from a skipped door. The originals were made by:
A.K. & Sons
Archibald Kenrick & Sons, established 1791, renowned manufacturer of cast iron goods
Inevitably demand for cast iron goods diminished as pressed steel came to the fore.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...EOFnXmd&sig=H0CndCIoRmwQY7Du878RZOP66cs&hl=en
Still going, albeit in a very different form - they adapted their business and survived:
http://www.kenricks.co.uk/window/index.html
There may well be a few specialist companies still making brass and iron rim locks and keeps, but I'm struggling to find them.
I might be resorting to salvage for my locks and keeps.
I posted a link to an example of the meagre offerings that I've found on the web, and there were a couple of iron keeps on there.
The first keep is of a style I've seen with this 'Davenport' rim lock that seems to be everywhere.
compare with:
What I'm trying to say, is that there must be very few people making the 'proper' iron locks and keeps today, along with all the other traditional ironmongery. There's plenty of cheap, flimsy, painted steel stuff that looks so out of place in a period property though.
I did find some nice iron butt hinges that were almost exactly the same as some very old (broken) examples I removed from a skipped door. The originals were made by:
A.K. & Sons
Archibald Kenrick & Sons, established 1791, renowned manufacturer of cast iron goods
Inevitably demand for cast iron goods diminished as pressed steel came to the fore.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...EOFnXmd&sig=H0CndCIoRmwQY7Du878RZOP66cs&hl=en
Still going, albeit in a very different form - they adapted their business and survived:
http://www.kenricks.co.uk/window/index.html
There may well be a few specialist companies still making brass and iron rim locks and keeps, but I'm struggling to find them.
I might be resorting to salvage for my locks and keeps.
I have found a few companies similar to this:
http://www.dartington.com/products/rustix/main.htm
But again, they don't have quite the right items for my house. Everything is either too polished and refined, or too 'olde worlde'.
I'll know what I'm looking for when I find it
http://www.dartington.com/products/rustix/main.htm
But again, they don't have quite the right items for my house. Everything is either too polished and refined, or too 'olde worlde'.
I'll know what I'm looking for when I find it
Lime
Member
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- East of England
The boxes of "rubbish" (anything for 20p) in carboots are a good source of odds and ends.
I have collected many good in period pieces there.
I have collected many good in period pieces there.
biffvernon
Member
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- 4,607
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- Lincolnshire
That one looks familiar, and again it seems a bit too "Olde Worlde-fied" to me.
I've bought brass rim locks from this company before, and now I've seen that they do an iron rim lock too:
http://blackstage.co.uk/repro_lock/stdpages/B520-6-i/
This looks more pleasing to me, with a finer cast finish. I don't know the price on this yet, but will find out on Monday.
The lock in the above post is £133, and the latch only version £92.
I've bought brass rim locks from this company before, and now I've seen that they do an iron rim lock too:
http://blackstage.co.uk/repro_lock/stdpages/B520-6-i/
This looks more pleasing to me, with a finer cast finish. I don't know the price on this yet, but will find out on Monday.
The lock in the above post is £133, and the latch only version £92.
I've had another look at their website, and they provide a full restoration service and can make missing bits such as keeps.
http://www.blackstage.co.uk/restoration/
Again, I would not expect this kind of service to be cheap, but I'll ask if they have a stock of keeps and how much they cost.
Nice to see that this restoration work's still carried out in the West Midlands.
http://www.blackstage.co.uk/restoration/
Again, I would not expect this kind of service to be cheap, but I'll ask if they have a stock of keeps and how much they cost.
Nice to see that this restoration work's still carried out in the West Midlands.
I've had a reply from Blackstage:
Here's another pic for anyone trying to fit a modern mortice sash lock to a door with thin stiles. A similar arrangement would be needed to fit the keep to the frame, to ensure it aligns with the lock.
Examples of horizontal locks:
http://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/Horizontal_Mortice_Locks.html
Obviously this relies on you remembering to lock the door. I suppose a front door should have auto deadlocking night latch too.
Here's another pic for anyone trying to fit a modern mortice sash lock to a door with thin stiles. A similar arrangement would be needed to fit the keep to the frame, to ensure it aligns with the lock.
Examples of horizontal locks:
http://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/Horizontal_Mortice_Locks.html
Obviously this relies on you remembering to lock the door. I suppose a front door should have auto deadlocking night latch too.