Restoring fireplace

[C.McGowan]

I am restoring a fireplace that has been filled in and covered up for quite a while. My Sandstone property was built in 1800 and was an estate factors house.
I am a bit unsure with what I found behind the wooden panels covering the wall. The room was the original kitchen but is now used as a dining room.
Can anybody tell me what I've found behind the wooden panels I have removed? What the red tiles were and what I might find if I dig it all away? I will be removing the radiator.
I'm trying to decide what to do. The stove installer wants to create a rectangular plastered opening but I'm wondering if anything might be worth salvaging.
I've attached a photo.

Many Thanks,
Chris

 

[plasticpigeon]

I wonder if there was a gas fire in there. I imagine if you knock it all out you will find a big hole unless you are lucky enough to still have the metalwork. I'm not sure if ranges existed in 1800, maybe just about, but if you do find anythying interesting behind there you are lucky! Shame the stove fitter wants a rectangular opening as the fitter is only fitting the stove, what is around it is largely irrelevant. i suppose the floor has to conform to regs and there are limits to where combustible material can go. In a Georgian property a it would be a shame to have a modern rectangular opening and a surround of some sort would be nice, either a large one to mimic the kitchen one, or a smaller one that would have gone around a hob grate could be a different approach that would leave a more period look even with a stove

 

[C.McGowan]

Thanks for the reply.
The property is not connected to the gas main. Oil heating only.

I'm excited to dig it out and see what's there. Even if nothing exciting, I would still like to restore it to something like it would have been.
If anybody has any photos of what a kitchen fireplace/range would have looked like from this era it would be great. Was red brick common then? This is my first time living in a period proterty so i'm very new to this, but keen to learn quickly.

 

[CliffordPope]

I'm not sure if ranges existed in 1800, maybe just about,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_stove

Invented in 1790 it says.


You could have a plain dull hole with a woodburner like everyone else, or you could do something imaginative. A small free-standing iron grate would look nice, possibly with a simple period fireback, and a plain mantelpiece echoing the kitchen origins.

 

[Kearn]

What an improvement already, from that panelling!!!

I'd say something similar, the stove fitter shouldn't really be involved in the restoration of the opening. Yes they have to conform to regs for fitting, such as raised/extended hearth to stop idiots walking into the fireplace (trip hazard is ok though!) but this can be done sensitively and with reclaimed materials. This is unlikley to be the route they wish to go though, so best to not let them do this part as they'll take the easy option.

My guess would be that those tiles were decorative to cover a recent-ish infill and wonder if scars of a much smaller opening / gas pipe exit will be found behind the rad. Behind it, who knows... You may be lucky and find some metal work, but unlikley. More likely you'll find traces of consecutive infills to reduce the size over time. However, unless the internal walls are shot or were never designed to be seen, then why plaster over historic fabric. Given you're stone built, I wonder if the original opening was indeed rectangular with a lintel rather than curved arch, but you'll be able to hopefully read the signs once it's cleared out.

Big word of warning though, fireplaces make an immense amount of mess, the dust is so fine it hangs in the air and takes weeks to settle!! Stay your investigation hole up high so you can see in to understand what lies behind...! It's not the best time of year for ventilation, nor natural light - I foolishly spent a winter in the dark with my head literally inside our inglenook, Which I wouldn't choose to do again!!

Good luck, looking forward to seeing more pictures...

 

[C.McGowan]

Thanks, CliffordPope. I'm thinking more and more it was a range rather than an open fire. We will see soon.
The wood burner is more functional than aesthetic. I relay of my wood burning stoves to reduce the amount of oil I'm burning through winter months, currently 600-800 litres a month. I'm considering a wood pellet boiler to replace the oil fired. Looks like a good alternative when taking RHI payments and oil price rises into consideration.

Thanks, Kearn. I know, the panelling was awful!! What's worse was the artex on the other 3 walls. So glad to finally have that removed.
The stove installer do restorations also. They say they can try to restore what is found behind the concrete. We will see. They are not expecting to find much and their suggestion as mentioned before is for if they are right.
Thanks for the warning about the fireplaces, I think I am destined to have a dusty dining room until the job is done. Thankfully the room has been emptied of all furnishings.
I will post pictures to this thread as I progress.

 

[Edward Ian]

Looks like you have a stone fireplace. Since the right hand side is wider thank the left, you may have some kind of bread oven going on in there.

You might well have a small inglenook, which is cleaned up would be perfect for a log burner.

The tiles are from when a much later fire was installed when the size of the opening was reduced.

Expect a lot of cr*p to come flying out when you remove all the add ons!

 

[C.McGowan]

Hi Edward Ian,
Thanks for your input. You're right about the stone, you can see some behind the failing plaster. A small inglenook sounds exciting. And a bread oven would make a great feature if that were the case.
I'll be tackling some of the clear out this weekend so I will post pics of my progress.

 

[C.McGowan]

Thinking again of your suggestion Edward of a bread oven. That would explain the three pots on my chimney stack (see photo). Theres one bedroom above which would leave two pots for the kitchen.

P.S. the cement pointing is for another discussion

 

[livias]

I hope I not teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but do be careful when you excavate and keep your head out of the hole. It is quite possible for the later infill to be a complete bodge job with heavy bricks lurking in it. The lintel could be missing / burnt through / dislodged

You may well have no problems at all, but take it carefully and dont be too gung ho

You can't be too careful on the dust front either. Tape up all the internal doors and wear a good mask

 

[88v8]

Fascinating.
Our inglenooks - both with bread ovens - were bricked up and had later smaller fireplaces inserted, probably in c19.
They were opened up again by a PO in the 70s.
When replacing the floors we were able to salvage one of the later hearthstones so that subsequent owners will have a clue to the past lives of the fireplaces.

Before you get into the flue, as has been said, tape up the doors - 14 day masking tape is good - and open the window, or you will have more than just a dusty room.
When doing a very dusty job in our previous house I bought an old extractor fan and put it in a piece of plywood which I inserted in a window. It's s useful thing to move from room to room if doing dusty work.

While you have the fireplace in bits.... think about air supply to the room. If the stove lacks air it will sulk, or create draughts or worse still it will create smelly downdraughts elsewhere in the house as it sucks air downwards through other chimneys. Been there.......
Can you get air to the back of the fireplace... failing that to vents either side.

Depending on the size of the stove, the fitter may insist on creating an air inlet, be careful where he puts it or that can make an 'orrible draught.

Ivor

 

[Flyfisher]

Depending on the size of the stove, the fitter may insist on creating an air inlet, be careful where he puts it or that can make an 'orrible draught.

Yes, for any stove over 5kW (unless the building regs have changed in the last few years).

Lots of useful information about stoves on this website: https://www.stovefittersmanual.co.uk/articles/regulations2/

 

[Kearn]

I'm not sure if ranges existed in 1800, maybe just about,

Given this was the kitchen, and assuming the outline shown is the original opening shape/size, then this certainly looks like it has the proportions of a range rather than an open fire...

 

[plasticpigeon]

 

[Kearn]

I stand corrected

 

[paulc]

Yes [fireplaces] have to conform to regs for fitting, such as raised/extended hearth to stop idiots walking into the fireplace (trip hazard is ok though!) but this can be done sensitively and with reclaimed materials.

Part J of the building regulations only require the hearth to be of a non-combustable material and the boundary of the surface to be visually apparent yo provide a warning to the occupants and to discourage combustible floor finishes (e.g. carpets) from being laid too close to the fire (section 2.26 on page 38). Most stove fitters would take this to mean a raised hearth, and a few will sign off on a flush surface. It is generally a good idea to have a raised lip around the boundary of the hearth to catch any hot embers that roll out of the fire.

When I removed the hideous 1970s fireplace in my drawing room (or if you prefer, lounge), I found the original tiled hearth that was level with the wooden floorboards. Material wise, it would have complied with current regs, but fall well short on size.

 

[Kearn]

Thinking again of your suggestion Edward of a bread oven. That would explain the three pots on my chimney stack (see photo). Theres one bedroom above which would leave two pots for the kitchen.

P.S. the cement pointing is for another discussion

What does the upstairs fireplace look like? Or has it been equally hidden and nullified....

Might be some clues for downstairs if you have a surround and also the fireback, as to whether it was plastered or not.