Replacing mock tudor cladding - victorian house

[rowleyburkin]

Appreciate any opinions on whether I should fill the voids in the wall behind this piece of cladding before replacing it and whats best to use to fill the gaps between the new timber and the render once its on.

Not sure why but the orginal builders seemed to use bits of timber between the bricks in places...

Thanks

 

[Feltwell]

Not sure why but the orginal builders seemed to use bits of timber between the bricks in places...

Almost certainly to give something to nail the original external timber to. It's exactly the same way that skirting boards were attached inside - "grounds" - though I think there are regional variations in that term - bits of wood hammered & wedged into brick joints to then allow skirting to be nailed to them.

As to what to fill the voids with - a bit of lime mortar would seem to be the obvious choice to me.

Between render and timber - hmm, this is somewhere I probably would look at a decent modern sealant like CT1, but I'll let others who have faced this problem directly comment!

 

[Cubist]

May I ask, have you checked the condition of 'all' the timber frame cladding? Its not clear but I would guess that the paints used on these, and the faux infill panels is impermeable and this has contributed to the decay of the timber. If so, then right now you may be dealing with just the tip of the iceberg and may have greater problems to come.

Filling the voids with a lime mortar would be a sensible move and you may also want to replace any of the rotten wooden blocks previously used to support and fix the cladding timbers - assuming you will need to re-use them for the new timber. Gaps between the render and the new timbers can also be closed with a lime mortar but you need to consider whether the extant render is cement or lime based.

Frankly, I think you would be wise to consider removing all the paints used on both the timbers and the infill panels to prevent similar damage in the future.

 

[rowleyburkin]

Thanks all....

Cubist - I know quite a few of the timbers have rot - there have been new bits scarfed in over the years - I've only owned the place since January...
You are quite right that modern (plasticky) paints have been used and contributed to the state of the timbers - I use linseed oil paint.
The place has a lot of this cladding - it's a victorian (1879) mock tudor detached house - bit like your profile picture but two storery so a bit of a Forth Bridge type situation regarding replacement of all the cladding.
All I have time to do at the moment is start with the worst bits and slowly work my way through them.
I don't know what the render is made of - I chipped bit off and stuck it in some white vinegar and it didn't fizz :-(
The render isn't painted with limewash as it seems a bit 'shiny' so looks like modern masonry paint. This might explain why the inside of the house is quite humid (around 70% in a lot of rooms) - we don't have any mould luckily as we open windows and run dehumidifiers in bathroom and kitchen.

Thanks

 

[Cubist]

Hi there RB,
It's a pain I know. After we moved in here we found that all the external render was cement based and, with shrinkage of the timbers, the panel seams had opened up and the POs had used a variety of inappropriate materials to close them - mostly badly and all of them failing. My first major project here was to rout out a border in the render between it and the timbers and caulk these with combinations of oakum and caulking cotton and finished with a lime based render blended to the surface. Hairline cracks still open up but these are easily filled/covered by a few coats of heavy lime wash. By the way, theres an interesting additional benefit to lime wash as it seems to more readily resist the build up of those green lichens on the north facing sides of the house.

In any event its a job for the good weather seasons - no fun to be had out there at this time of year.

Good luck,
Cubist

 

[malcolm]

I had a similar trouble with my half timbered upper floor from 1920. The wood was painted with modern gloss paint and the infill an early cement render later painted with masonry paint. I was a very lucky the timbers were structural and could breathe to a void on the inside. I removed the plastic paint from the timbers and painted in linseed and left the infill as it was. I like Cubist's idea of having lime beside the wood and I've been filling gaps with lime.

One thing I've found is the pigment from black linseed paint will come off in the rain over time and stain the render. I'm planning to add a coat of boiled linseed over the top.

Removing the modern gloss paint is really important for protecting the wood.

 

[88v8]

It's a problem inheriting something like this... I'm currently putting up new mock half-timbering on a 1960s bathroom block.
I'm using sawn cedar plank, ¾" x 5", affixed with stainless screws & wall plugs and Arbo MP20 over Arbo 2650 primer, and the screw holes closed with cedar plug.
Easy to get a good fixing as I'm cladding sound cement render.

Each plank is painted with Bedec Barn Black before it's put up, on the back and the edges and the end grain. Three dilute coats. Then after it's affixed and the plugs glued in, the face is painted, three coats.

The upper and lower edges are weathered to run any water off. The verticals are slanted to match.

I am then rendering in between, two coats, with cement, as it's a modern skin.
The render has stainless mesh in it, affixed to the wall with stainless screws. This because of 'wall tie fatigue'.
I'll probably paint the render with Keim or something equivalent.

I expect it to last pretty much forever.

But it's hard when you inherit something that was put up with nothing prepainted and the edges not weathered.

Mind you, that can work... our previous house, 1920, was mocked that way but the wood had been treated with creosote, the proper stuff, and I continued with creosote so it was fine.

Linseed is good but the drying time is not, hence my use of Bedec.
In your case I would be tempted to take all the cladding off and start again with cedar. Easy to say of course. Perhaps depends how long you plan to stay in the house.