Repair/replace windows?

[vanhelgan]

Our victorian house has had most of its (presumably sash) original windows replaced over time with timber casements. These are now badly rotten in places and need either repairing or more likely replacing. The two remaining original(?) sash windows are in good condition. As the building is grade 2 listed presumably repair should be the preferred option. However, as the rot is so severe I doubt whether this will be possible. Therefore my preference would be to see about getting permission to replace the casements with sash windows. I have tried to contact our conservation officer with whom I've discussed projects in the past but been told that the council no longer has a CO..
I thought I'd ask you knowledgable people if you think this would be appropriate and whether permission is likely to be granted (the other semi next door still has sashes). Also if anyone could recommend a company to do the work. Finally another thing I wondered about was whether it's worth looking into tracking down some reclaimed sash windows to fit?
Many thanks in advance.

 

[biffvernon]

If the building in listed you do need to get Listed Buildings Consent and I guess the Council have a statutory obligation to deal with this, even if they don't actually have someone called a Conservation Officer.

 

[Pford75]

As Biff says...with or without a CO, there will be a need for LBC. The challenge is that you are likely to have to submit an application without having anyone to discuss it with at the council. Can't comment on whether it is likely to be permitted.

In terms of companies - where are you based? You'll get more recommendations if people know your location. Personally, I'd seek out a small, experienced joinery firm rather than a large national concern.

 

[vanhelgan]

Yes, I realise I'd need consent - the challenge is not being able to discuss the idea before submitting proposals...
We're in the north west of England. Any thoughts on the feasibility of using reclaimed windows?
Thanks again.

 

[Flyfisher]

Repair is not just the best option for listed buildings but a general 'good conservation' practice for all period properties. But there will always be cases when something really is beyond repair and a sympathetic replacement is usually acceptable. From your brief description, your proposal sounds reasonable to me, especially if there is clear evidence that sash windows were original and the newer casements are beyond repair.

But my opinion is just that and to keep legal you really do need LBC for such works, for which your council planning department is the first port of call.

Perhaps one of our resident CO's could elaborate on how the LBC process is handled in cases where a council does not have a CO?

As for using reclaimed windows, apart from the issue of finding one of the correct size (old windows were generally not of standard sizes) there is the possibility of confusing future historians. The purist view seems to be to implement new works as new works.

 

[biffvernon]

The trouble with 'reclaimed windows' is that unless you are very lucky they will be the wrong size and have been removed because they were rotten or would have been damaged on removal. It's a great idea but I wouldn't hold your breath while searching.

It's more than likely that you would get LBC but my first move would be to ring the council and find the person who deal with it. They may have a title other than CO as jobs are often merged. Our CO is also Director of Planning.

Then find a local joiner.

 

[vanhelgan]

Hmm. Plenty of food for thouoght. I've emailed the council to see if I can discuss it with someone there. Yes, getting the right sizes could prove to be difficult - all of our windows are different sizes in the one house! Hadn't thought about the potential for confusion in future either. As there's no rush for now I'll see what the planning department say initially.

 

[Anonymous]

Strictly speaking, if you elect to replace the windows then you will also need Building Regulations consent. An external window is a "controlled fitting" under the Building Regulations and as a result of this classification certain standards have to be met when a window is replaced - primarily thermal performance, safety and means of escape in the event of fire. However, there are a number of concessions in Part L (Conservation of Fuel & Power) for historic buildings where the work would affect the building's character.

A suitably experienced building surveyor or architect will be able to advise on what is required to comply. I'd recommend speaking with the Conservation Officer and Building Control at your Local Authority to formalise matters. If you don't, you may run into difficulties when/should you ever sell the property as you will have to disclose that you've replaced the windows at Enquiries Before Contract.

 

[Michelle73]

The trouble with 'reclaimed windows' is that unless you are very lucky they will be the wrong size and have been removed because they were rotten or would have been damaged on removal. It's a great idea but I wouldn't hold your breath while searching.

I can second that comment. Recently removed a Bay Window which has been touched but not yet damaged by Dry Rot. I did think of putting it on FreeCycle but would anyone really want to take a chance on installing this knowing its history?

 

[biffvernon]

touched but not yet damaged by Dry Rot.

Eh? Dry rot, despite the name, won't affect wood that is dry.

 

[Michelle73]

Eh? Dry rot, despite the name, won't affect wood that is dry.

Unfortunatley I am absolutley sure it was dry rot strands creeping along the wood. What I meant is that the strands on the surface were wired brushed away but any strands within the wood would go unnoticed by someone who knew nothing of its history. Given what happened to our kitchen and dining room last year because of dry rot I wasn't prepared to take a chance on leaving the window in place.

 

[biffvernon]

And if the wood remains dry it won't rot.

 

[MdB]

Have a look at the posts here by Matt Green. He is very much an expert on rot.

My understanding of what he says is that wood will only rot when it is wet (as Biff says). Dry rot tendrils are caused by the dry rot being under stress (lack of moisture and/or food source) and it is looking for a new home. The tendrils will pass over anything (concrete blocks for instance) looking for new damp wood to eat. They will also pass over dry wood without causing damage as they can't eat it. I think Matt's comment was that all you need to do is brush it off and sweep it up. It won't come back as long as (and this is the important bit) the cause of the wood getting damp has been removed. There are dry rot spores everywhere so getting rid of them isn't possible and not worth trying.

The belief that all wood touched by dry rot needs to be removed is I believe false as is the need to remove 1m of good wood too. I'm sorry if you have had a lot of unnecessary work done.

However, don't believe me. I am very much not the expert - have a look at Matt's posts and do your own research (remembering those that require payment for "curing" a rot problem, might be slightly biased in what they consider needs to be done).