Repair floorboards or replace.

[MattJones]

Hi all.
I'm after some advice on flooring in my home. We have removed all the carpets upstairs and would like to sand back the floor and keep it as a finished floor. Over the years it's been slightly butchered and I wanted to know if it was worth trying to repair the boards or replace with reclaimed timber. I would prefer to repair but I'm unsure the best way to go about it. I have attached a few pictures just to show some of the bit's, there's much more to repair and a lot of it just cut with no support underneath and loads of screws to make it somewhat stable. Any advice on getting it in a better looking and more importantly sturdy state would be appreciated.
Cheers.

 

[Toby Newell]

You have shown about 0.7sqm. Not much to go on lol.

Age of property? Size of area? Width and thickness of boards? (measure several, sometimes they vary) hard to gauge, if boards are 5in then typically 1890+ if 6in then 1880 or earlier. Hard to tell if original as asphaltum (bituminous 'stain') around edges and opaque dirty worn wax everywhere else. Sand a small area to the bare wood and wash with water, that's your colour, fingers crossed for rich tea biscuit over gingernut or rhubarb and custard sweet (redwood heartgrain pale yellow sapwood)

Reclaimed timber is very expensive, like everything it seems, try and save if possible. I save the impossible, even 500yrs + and 50% air (see recent posts) Unless your boards look horrible when sanded (you can always stain) I would repair and keep.

99% of flooring companies will do a rushed and poor job, you are certainly better off doing yourself.

It will cost you, you will probably have to buy some tools but you can use again if you are young or sell on afterwards. You will need a little confidence with power and hand tools, but it's mostly patience, dilligence, imagination and a methodical approach.

Feel free to check out the DIY guides on my website and the rest where I explain my methods, it might take you a few days but I think it's one of the more comprehensive resources in English at least.

In general there are a few basics:

1. Don't screw anything down that you haven't lifted before to check for services unless you know there are none, reduces leaks and 'bangs'.

2. Use C24 timber 2x4 if possible, no need for pressure treated.

3. Use as many noggins as you like, the more the merrier. Top tip, measure (Hultifors Talimeter = old measure stick) internal dims between joists then add 3-4mm. Cut, offer up, it might fit with persuation, if not shave a bit off and 'creep up' on the fit. Butt joints work on friction, a nice snug fit makes things more secure. A powered mitre saw is a must have. A cheapy Parkside is fine.

4. If you are going to invest in a table saw or a circular saw, don't cheap out, these can easily be the most dangerous items you will ever use, maybe apart from a motorbike. Kickback is real, very easy to lose a finger. Just buy a Bosch, Makita, Dewalt, Festool etc. Cheaper = lower power / poor ergonomics / poor tolerances / poor alignment = more chance of binding. Your fingers (or teeth) are worth more than a couple of hundred quid. Battery drills, drills, jigsaws, mitre saws, these can be cheap, just buy good bits / drill bits / blades. To me a Festool CT MIDI dust extractor is a no brainer but a Henry will reluctantly suffice.

5. Just use Spax screws, torx head, yes they are expensive, yes they work. I use 3.5x55mm face, and their 4.5x65mm decking and flooring for tricky boards, those and 5x80mm, 5x100mm for noggins and joist and occasionally 7.2mm / 8mm coach screws (Timco) and 150mm Spax pan head.

6. Glueing doesn't harm. I use MS hybrid and have done for 15 years, never one callback, its easy to find now.

7. Estwing make nice hammers and cats paws, buy ALL the cats paws you can but ONLY those made in Japan. (Bakuma, Shark, Mokuba) nail punch, drift (straight punch for punching through) Vaughan superbars x2. A mallet. Bahco chisel knife. Hultafors wrecking chisel. Bahco / Stanley carbide scrapers. Plastic packing shims, although you can make wooden ones yourself.

8. Dont be a tight arse, buy the BEST quality hand tools, power tools you can use a 30yr old Black and Decker drill and jigsaw but cheap hand tools will turn to cream cheese, make you bleed and swear and cost you hours. Just buy Knipex pincers, pliers, twingrip pliers, bolt cutters and cobra pliers. You can literally spend over an hour trying to remove a single rusted screw with cheap tools. This advice is decades and £thousands in the making. Example: I bought a £5 quid Silverline pair of pincers, they broke. I bought another £5 quid Silverline pair of pincers, guess what? They broke. I bought a £25 pair of Knipex pincers, guess what? 100,000 nails, tacks, staples and screws and 15 years later, I still use them every week.

Oh and don't be a sheep, a nice rechargeable drill / driver is a must an impact driver not so much. I have repaired dozens of floors including driving 6 inch screws through 500yr old oak into 500yr old oak and birch beams 95% with my little Bosch 12V's. Only occasionally will I need to get the 18V out. No one ever needs an impact driver, they are annoying and damage lime plaster used by noobs and sheep, sold by companies as they are cheaper to make (hammer = cheaper than gears) If I can put an 8mm x 175mm construction screw in 1470 oak without one... and another top tip, if you need to remove a stubborn screw you cannot beat a Wiha 300mm screwdriver holder, it twists and transfers the torque slowly, I can beat any noob with a dugger-dugger with my 300mm, a quality bit and some shredded wheat power.

9. Don't be afraid, just think twice, cut once (it's actually measure twice cut once but both count) Also. Be a little afraid. Before you use a planer, router, table saw, jigsaw, mitre saw, circular saw, physically pause for exactly two seconds to allow your brain to remind itself not ro be stupid. This is from someone who had a 63mm 16G nail ricochet through their hand, broke their finger on a mitre saw from kickback from a 50mm piece of wood and who put their finger into a running electric planer. I still have all my digits though, albeit some slightly flatter than others. I mean this. It works. Actually the way the brain works familiarity does breed contempt and experienced professionals like myself are just as at risk, if not more than total amateurs. Your brain switches off to conserve computing power, you have to fight it by doing constant conscious mini resets. If you walk on as many joists as I do without any floor, sometimes for weeks you learn to do this. In 35,000 hours and over 3 decades I've put one leg through a ceiling, gone through two wires (same job! but it was insane) and gone through one pipe. I know builders where that is classed as a good week.

10. Best of luck. More info on my website, with 600 hi res photos and over 300,000 words of advice and tips.

www.newellwoodworks.co.uk




ALL the cats paws... technically you don't need 3 dust extractors...(I have 4) but you need all the paws...

 

[housewinnie]

We have exposed floorboards in the lounge and bathroom. The lounge has painted edges. All we did was carefully wash them several times with scotch pads. Then placed a rug over job done. Our landing and bedroom ones are next. Don’t replace. It’s amazing how old boards can look with a gentle clean and wax even if they are a little cut and hacked in places. That’s all history.

 

[Lacan07]

I would definitely keep! You've not shown much of the floor but don't worry about the 'rustic' look because with a bit of work it will look fab and you'll see all the history in the floor. Just get yourself over to Toby's website. If its soft pine (most likely) you'll never be able to achieve perfect sanded floors anyway but they're boring in my opinion. I visit many trendy restaurants in Soho, central London as part of my day to day work and they've always utilise the original boards and they still look amazing

 

[MattJones]

Yeah sorry for pictures there's stuff everywhere so just snapped what I could, it was mainly the bits that have been pieced together that I was questioning what to do. Would you just throw a noggin under and just screw them down as is then?
House was built 1887 I think, I will send back some of the wood and see what we're dealing with. Thanks all the information you have provided it's great!
There's a couple of boards that the workmen decided to drill a line through rather than cutting, would you say just remove and cut flush then push back together?
I agree I'm happy with the rustic look just want to get it a little more sturdy and try and tidy up some of the worst bits.

 

[Toby Newell]

1887, I was 3 yrs out.

'Just throw a noggin under'???

Just lift all the loose boards, stabilise all the weak points, fill in any notches where you can, level, bridge any cut boards left flapping and refit.

The only time I advise replacing is if the rot / pest damage is too great or boards are too thin, although if boards are wide and pretty I save these too.

If colour is unpleasant you can stain, stained pine isn't always great, but possibly better than fittimg new wood and cheaper, your mileage may vary.

I thought rustic meant rural, not messy, busy and crappily repaired. If the latter I think it detracts and I spend time filling and colouring and repairing to reduce this as much as possible, if you like the look however, then great.

 

[MattJones]

I like a rustic look I don't mean the look of this floor is rustic I think it's a mess and that's why I want to fix it up to a level that looks decent I'm just not after perfection.
What would you suggest for filling? Mainly for the bits shown round the edges that have a load of bits screwed down together.

 

[Lacan07]

If colour is unpleasant you can stain, stained pine isn't always great,

In what way Toby? I have soft pine I think. I was hoping to stain mid - dark. (when I get round to it)

 

[Lacan07]

I like a rustic look I don't mean the look of this floor is rustic I think it's a mess and that's why I want to fix it up to a level that looks decent I'm just not after perfection.
What would you suggest for filling? Mainly for the bits shown round the edges that have a load of bits screwed down together.

To me rustic just means you see the history in floor. You make the repairs, fill the gaps, etc, to get it looking as good as you can before finishing, but you always see a few dings and cuts and it always looks great.

Whereas with hardwoods you can sand until all the flaws are gone and some people like that if they have the opportunity.

 

[Toby Newell]

I like a rustic look I don't mean the look of this floor is rustic I think it's a mess and that's why I want to fix it up to a level that looks decent I'm just not after perfection.
What would you suggest for filling? Mainly for the bits shown round the edges that have a load of bits screwed down together.

see my PM reply. If you are going to fill then why lift and insulate?

Rustic is a poor descriptor, it means 'simple, rural, natural'. Shabby chic normally is a euphamism for shabby and cannot be bothered to learn how make something look better.

Your floor is not rustic and never will be. I'm just finishing 1550 random width, wide board English oak set on oak and birch beams in a cottage with shakes, knots, waves and massive gaps and heigbt differences that's rustic. What you have is a perfectly normal, average UK pine floor that's been b******d around with.

Sounds like a confused excuse incase it doesn't turn out great.

Don't aim or settle for shabby, rustic or imperfect, aim for as perfect as possible, it will look nicer. The floor will have enough character in and of itself. You are starting with too much character. Pine already is fussy, busy, not terribly pretty and never meant to be seen.

Think harder. What you probably mean is actually the opposite. You want to ameliorate past crimes, improve the defects and make it look neater. By rustic you probably mean you don't want it to look 'new' and probably want a low sheen and / or possibly low build finish.

For maximum 'rustic-type' effect use cut nails instead of screws but don't fill, also don't insulate then because otherwise you will see the insulation between tbe gaps.

My worst customers are the ones who 'don't want perfection' as they are invariably fussy.

Aim for perfection, seeing as that is philosophically and semantically impossible, possibly blasphemous and not within your limited capabilities anyway, and your result may turn out to be just right.

 

[Toby Newell]

To me rustic just means you see the history in floor. You make the repairs, fill the gaps, etc, to get it looking as good as you can before finishing, but you always see a few dings and cuts and it always looks great.

Whereas with hardwoods you can sand until all the flaws are gone and some people like that if they have the opportunity.

All semantics, it's about feelings so there is no right or wrong. But it is a lazy and very poor descriptor. You can see history in almost every floor you do if it's pre 1960 to a greater or lesser extent, only exception would be permanently covered tongue and groove floors with few gaps and little patination that you totally remove by sanding.

Also your comment is untrue.

'Whereas with hardwoods you can sand until all the flaws are gone'

How so? I have just sanded several 500yr old oak floors using P40 Lagler Zirconia on a £2,500 industrial edge sander followed by P40, P60 ceramic on a £600 Festool Rotex for hours using hundreds of discs.

I can still see carpenters marks when they made the floor, also burn marks and tens of thousands of nails, tacks, cracks and splits, also the oak is a deep chocolate brown.

I'm not sure it looks like new wood

Bed 2


Burn marks, worm, I carved the left infill from a 400yr old piece from a French army tank garrison, not entirely sure all the marks are gone
hard to see but scratches are there still...



Floors now slope 8 inches less, are fixed down, filled and stabilised so no splinters, can be cleaned and are not being worn heavily by simply being walked on as friable parts disintegrate. 90% of the effort is to preserve, conserve, stabilise and increase function. The coating and colouring is simply the cherry on the top. I would say they look both rustic and probably more perfect than you will see most places. Not mutually exclusive imho.

 

[Toby Newell]

In what way Toby? I have soft pine I think. I was hoping to stain mid - dark. (when I get round to it)

In what way? In that pine stains horribly and is very difficult to do and all pine is soft lol.

Me yesterday... so far one water stain, vandyke walnut and black... just applied three shellac / spirit stain tint coats today, tmoro needs ingrained paint coloured out before lacquering... staining pine is great...


Pine is a pain and incredibly difficult to stain and stairs are worse! If you twist my arm I will agree to do the treads only on pine. These look like an early C20th addition to the 1550 structure.

Only thing that keeps me going is below, I think I counted around 310 rings over about 4 inches, so tree was possibly 350 to 400yrs old and grew in -20C so probably Siberia or N Canada, grain is incredibly tight, so rarely for pine, you will see chattoyant reflections around the knots as the grain folds in, hopefully I can catch the effect once I lacquer it, although without 3D glasses, you cannot see the shimmer. Amazing wood but still soft as.... slurped up 3 or 4 coats of shellac, will probs have 7 or 8 coats in total plus water stain.

 

[Toby Newell]

@Mart shims and glue...

 

[Mrs McG]

Anyone else wish they lived nearer to Toby? (In a totally non-stalker way!)

 

[MattJones]

Looks great.
Hoping to clear a room this weekend and get a full view of what needs to be done and just start cracking on.
I've been reading though your site, it's a whole lot of knowledge to take in but it's in no rush to be done so I may as well do it properly like you said.