Renovating Original Sash Windows

[AlexP84]

Hi,

I currently live in an old Victorian house which was built in 1891. It has all the original sash windows still fitted which are in need of repair as a few are painted shut and others are showing signs of rotting window cills and flaking paint. I have restored 1 window so far which didn't really need much repair except for stripping the paint off back to bare wood and replacing the sash cords. I painted these using Zinsser All Coat Satin Water based paint, which look ok for now but I am not sure is the right paint to use.

The rest of the windows that need repairing will need wood splicing in around the bottom of the window. I have followed Feltwell's post about how he did his bay window repair and that has been a big help to show the process involved in repairing a window. I am ideally looking to do as much as I can myself without involving local joiners to make profiles of wood, but I am looking for help in how to create the right profiles. Below are some photos of some of my windows that need attention.





The image below shows a close up of the profile at the edge of the frame which I know I will have to splice in on some of the windows. My question is what kind of router bit would I need to recreate the same profile below.



Also, as has been covered here along multiple threads, which paint is the best to use. Most of my windows are south facing and get quite a lot of sunlight on them especially in the summer months. I was going to look at using linseed paint but looking at the drying times has put me off that. I have seen a lot recommend the Bedec MSP which is an option but I was wondering how this would hold up being exposed to lots of sunlight, and also what primer would you use for the first coat on bare wood? Lastly my other option which I have seen recommended is Sikkens Rubbol Satura, and I was wondering if anyone had experience of using this on their sash windows.

Thanks,

Alex

 

[mardinor]

Well done on deciding to repair these wonderful original windows. They are better quality wood than is possible to buy today and with some simple DIY will last longer than new replacements. I repaired all my 1890 windows 20 years ago and they are still going strong, only now needing a refresh of paint.

In short I strongly recommend the following:
- RepairCare DryFlex epoxy filler (it is expensive but flexible and has lasted 15 years without cracking, whereas ronseal exterior wood filler failed within 2 years).
- RepairCare DrySeal (far, far better than putty for sealing against glazing)
- Jotun Demidekk Ultimate Windows and Doors paint, with their Visir primer

Honestly, you must use these materials. DIY brands just do not last. They seem expensive until you value your time.
Good luck!

 

[jamest]

I re-painted all the windows on my south facing elevation about 5 years ago with Bedec MSP and they are already in need of being re-done, it's held up a lot better on the other elevations. I've just started on the worst ones with the Demidekk stuff because of the good accounts of its performance that I've heard. Can't say how it will perform obviously, but it's easy to use and not significantly more expensive.

 

[fernicarry]

+1 for Demidekk Ultimate and Visir. MSP doesn't last very long where I am.

The edge of the outer lining looks like its done with a round-over bit. You'll need to figure out the radius, looks around 1/2" or maybe a bit smaller. Is the back edge of it square? Best done on a table. Nice detail, haven't seen that on a window before.

 

[AlexP84]

+1 for Demidekk Ultimate and Visir. MSP doesn't last very long where I am.

The edge of the outer lining looks like its done with a round-over bit. You'll need to figure out the radius, looks around 1/2" or maybe a bit smaller. Is the back edge of it square? Best done on a table. Nice detail, haven't seen that on a window before.

Thanks for letting me know the type of router bit, I'll double check the radius and see if I can get a bit sorted. Yes the back edge of it is square, I originally thought it was something similar to the staff bead but on the outside but then realised it was all one piece.

Here is another photo of a different window when the sashes were taken out. It does look like a round over style but there is then a slight profile around it (not sure of the right word) but it seems it be just a couple of mm lower than the face if that makes sense.





It seems like Demidekk Ultimate is a popular choice now. How is the application as I saw somewhere that it can be quite thick and stay tacky for a while.

 

[fernicarry]

Thanks for letting me know the type of router bit

Sorry, should have said corner bead, not round over. You'd think I'd know the difference after having made miles of it over the last few months....

 

[AlexP84]

Sorry, should have said corner bead, not round over. You'd think I'd know the difference after having made miles of it over the last few months....

Haha, yes that looks more like the right style. Did you make yours using a router table? I have a hand held router

 

[fernicarry]

I saw somewhere that it can be quite thick and stay tacky for a while

That was probably me. It is a bit thicker than other paints, probably due to being external only. I do find myself washing out my brushes more often than with MSP as they get quite clogged up.

I put masking tape over any surfaces that might touch to stop them sticking together. To be fair most paints behave the same its just that Demidekk struck me as staying sticky for longer after I got caught out a couple of times with the bottom sash sticking to the cill weeks after applying it.

Happy with it overall though and more importantly it looks perfect after a couple of years unlike MSP which already looks rough.

Did you make yours using a router table? I have a hand held router

Yes, I bought a table not too long ago and its make things hugely easier. You might manage it free hand with a bearing guided cutter but the problem I always found was keeping the router dead upright along the length of the run. Since you are making shortish sections no harm in trying first and seeing how it goes.

 

[AlexP84]

That was probably me. It is a bit thicker than other paints, probably due to being external only. I do find myself washing out my brushes more often than with MSP as they get quite clogged up.

I put masking tape over any surfaces that might touch to stop them sticking together. To be fair most paints behave the same its just that Demidekk struck me as staying sticky for longer after I got caught out a couple of times with the bottom sash sticking to the cill weeks after applying it.

Happy with it overall though and more importantly it looks perfect after a couple of years unlike MSP which already looks rough.



Yes, I bought a table not too long ago and its make things hugely easier. You might manage it free hand with a bearing guided cutter but the problem I always found was keeping the router dead upright along the length of the run. Since you are making shortish sections no harm in trying first and seeing how it goes.

Thanks for that, that's good to know. Do you paint the frames and internals where the pocket is to access the weights with the Demidekk or do you just stick to painting the external window frame and part of the sash window?

I was thinking of using the same paint to paint the entire box and sash and frame, but if Demidekk is external only then this is probably not a good idea to use internally.

 

[fernicarry]

The usual advice is not to paint any part of the box or the sashes that you can't see when the sashes are in their closed position. This is to make them operate more easily as you have wood sliding on wood rather than paint on paint. Probably more of a problem with old oil paints that might soften on a warm day rather than today's water based stuff (given time to fully cure). I do paint a couple of inches up from the cill even on the inside of the pulley stile just to make it look neat when the window is cracked open and to give a bit of protection to the joint between cill and pulley stile.

You'll probably find lots of overpaint from previous generations in places it shouldn't be. I've spent hours/days/weeks with a scraper removing old paint from mine. Its very satisfying to bring them back to life but you can easily understand why people don't bother and they go downhill.

Btw there is Demidekk Infinity as well as Ultimate. For the life of me I can't figure out the difference although Infinity specifically mentions doors and windows whereas ultimate doesn't. Maybe infinity goes on a bit easier or is less likely to stick? The only difference I have found is the sheen level. Ultimate is more matt and I started out with MSP matt so its the best match for me. Both are exterior only.

Are you going to draft proof your windows whilst they are disassembled?

 

[AlexP84]

I am going to draught proof the windows while the are out, along with the staff and parting beads. Had a local company renovate a few windows a couple of years ago and wasn't too happy with what they did which is why I have decided to do them myself.

The one window I have renovated, I did paint the box and sashes (not the edge of the sash where the cord is fastened) and the top sash has become stuck, but the bottom sash moves up and down fully without any issues. I'm guessing it's either due to the top sash not being opened as often as the bottom, or that the paint has become stuck somewhere. I'll take the sashes out at some point and see if I can free it up.