Removing plaster to lath ceilings- DIY

[lizziecupcakes]

Hi all, I have a 1907 Edwardian property.

In my master bedroom, I have a pretty awful ceiling with a lot of cracks through it. Surveyor said it might collapse eventually. It’s gypsum plaster on laths. It has pretty cornices around it which I want preserved.

For removal of the plaster, laths and applying plasterboard and then a skim plaster, I’ve been quoted £1,700 + VAT. This is for this one ceiling alone. It is about 16metres squared.

I think £1,700 is extortionate and I will be seeking more quotes. I think it shouldn’t be more than £900, but maybe I’m wrong.

My question is, has anyone removed the plaster from their lath ceilings before? I am hoping this might cut the cost a bit.

Do you also have recommendations on how to deal with plasterboard on ceilings etc?

Thank you

 

[Ashville87]

Your issue here could be trying to preserve the cornice. They could have been moulded in situ annd also attached to the laths and rest of the plaster. I’ve taken down lath ceilings before and I’ll be honest it’s one of the most unpleasant jobs going. A couple of my ceilings are giving me cause for concern so I’m planning to board over the existing so I don’t have to deal with the mess of taking it down or disturb the cornice.

 

[a twig]

A few quick thoughts:
1) I’d be surprised if the cornice doesn’t get damaged as ultimately that will be partially attached to some of the lath and plaster. That will take a lot of care and probably be driving the high costs

2) If the ceiling is in bad nick it should come down pretty easily but again, risk of cornice damage.

3) As mentioned by other folk on here, plasterboard is less sound absorbent than lath and plaster, so more echoes and noise transmission, possibly something to think about.

Boarding over is the usual way but then the cornice alignment will be out.

Only other alternative is to remove the plaster, replace laths where needed and replaster onto those but probably even more costly

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Your issue here could be trying to preserve the cornice. They could have been moulded in situ annd also attached to the laths and rest of the plaster. I’ve taken down lath ceilings before and I’ll be honest it’s one of the most unpleasant jobs going. A couple of my ceilings are giving me cause for concern so I’m planning to board over the existing so I don’t have to deal with the mess of taking it down or disturb the cornice.

Thanks for your response!
I thought about boarding over but I wasn’t sure if I could since the plaster seems to be loose/coming away from the laths. I thought this meant that boarding over wouldn’t be a solution (but I’m not sure and have zero experience in this)

 

[lizziecupcakes]

A few quick thoughts:
1) I’d be surprised if the cornice doesn’t get damaged as ultimately that will be partially attached to some of the lath and plaster. That will take a lot of care and probably be driving the high costs

2) If the ceiling is in bad nick it should come down pretty easily but again, risk of cornice damage.

3) As mentioned by other folk on here, plasterboard is less sound absorbent than lath and plaster, so more echoes and noise transmission, possibly something to think about.

Boarding over is the usual way but then the cornice alignment will be out.

Only other alternative is to remove the plaster, replace laths where needed and replaster onto those but probably even more costly

Appreciate your response!
I think you’re right - the cornices will probably be affected.

It’s a good point about the sound insulation. I should check that!

I don’t know if i’m being too precious about the original cornices….

 

[Stevers]

We plasterboarded some ceilings here, but I'm increasingly of the opinion that a filling of soluble gypsum plaster wrapped in paper is a poor sort of building material.
Lath and plaster ceilings can be patched or boarded over - depends how bad it is. Taking them down though is not for the faint hearted.

 

[paulc]

I've taken down a couple of the old lath & plaster ceilings here. It is certainly a very messy and dirty job. You have to be meticulous in getting all the old nails out if you are planning on putting up plasterboard. Quite often, the heads have rusted away, so pincers are needed (I used mole grips).
On the plus side, it gives you a chance to stuff insulation between the joists and get it right up to the walls. Also a good opportunity to sort any wiring issues and move light fittings if needed.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Thanks all.

I’m going to seek more quotes, but I’m starting to panic a bit at the cost. I didn’t realise this might be costly. I have a dining room, living room, the master bedroom and downstairs hallway in original coving (ceilings), so the cost of these over time will be quite high…. Just to plaster. I’m going to bed quite anxious now

 

[larry]

We pulled down our kitchen lath and plaster ceiling. It's an easy job (you don't need to pay a plasterer to do it and if you don't want to DIY just find somebody who will do the labouring) but the messiest thing I've ever done. That said, dress up and mask up properly and it's fine.

We replaced with 9mm plasterboard and the sound transmission between ground and first floor is really noticeable.

In hindsight we could have used soundbloc plasterboard (or whatever it's called) or even shoved some rockwool in between joists... If I was doing this now that's exactly what I'd do.

Skimming a ceiling once the board is up isn't a huge job for a plasterer, I think we paid £400 or £500 or similar. That might have included the boarding.

Over boarding is possible but you are then adding extra weight to the joists.

An alternative could be to create a false ceiling underneath (I think there are metal frame kits which fix to the walls), you lose a couple of inches of height though (no experience with this)

All of the above assumes the cornice comes down also, agree that preserving that will be tricky.

 

[DaveG]

As mentioned already it sounds like the 2 biggest factors in the price quoted are preservation of the existing mouldings and the unpleasantness of the job.
If you think of it from the plasterers point of view he’s going to quote a price that makes a horrible job worth his while.
If you were willing to accept loss of the cornice, (perhaps replacing with new in the same period style?) and you ripped down the ceiling yourself, you’d probably find that quote would more than half.
Always worth asking around. In other similar situations I’ve often asked for 2 prices. One where they tackle the entire job and one where I get everything cleared out in readiness and you can decide for yourself then whether you want to get stuck in to save yourself some money.
The point on sound insulation is a good one. It’s worth looking at what materials you may want to add into the void to possibly offset that.
Good luck and don’t stress

 

[mardinor]

To add a different perspective, the vast majority of original ceilings are repairable and it's much less effort than removing lath and plaster. If any parts are genuinely at risk of collapse (i.e bounce when pushed) then you can add recessed stainless screws and penny washers to secure. Cracks can be repaired with scrim tape. Then you can even repair-skim yourself over the top and sand smooth if you don't have plastering skills. I did all my victorian ceilings this way 25 years ago, having never done any plastering, and they still look great. And they all looked unsalvageable.

 

[fernicarry]

In my experience builders usually leave the laths behind and hammer any nails flush if they are going to overboard. Plasterboard isn't as thick as lath and plaster so leaving the laths behind kind of sort of compensates and keeps the finished surface in the same place.

Also since the laths are put on before the internal walls go up you'll generally find that they run between rooms so hacking them off mid span leaves the adjacent room unsupported. Not that builders particularly care about that but its a very good reason to leave them in place.

If you want to reduce the cost then do the filthy part of pulling down and disposing of the old plaster yourself (I smash it up with a lump hammer and spread it over the veg patch, helps neutralise our acidic soil). Then the liability for preserving the cornice is on you. I'd probably carefully cut through the old plaster a couple of inches out from the edge of the cornice. The builder can sheet up to that and then skim over the whole lot to the lip of the cornice. That might get you down to your 900 target, but London prices...

Or repair. The bedroom I recently did was in pretty shocking condition, large cracks, loose bouncy bits, holes the size of your fist. Even with that level of damage it was hardly in danger of collapse, that's just the surveyor's CYA tendency kicking in. I partially filled the worst cracks with haired lime putty which grips onto the laths and really stabilises it and then skimmed over with modern stuff and sanded back to feather it in. This was fairly time consuming but the walls needed similar intervention as well. You can still faintly see the lines of the worst cracks after it was covered with heavy lining paper but thats just the character of an old house (unlike the dead straight lines when the joins between plasterboard fail...). Cost of materials for the repairs maybe a couple of hundred.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

You’re all so amazing, thank you so much for your advice and all the shared experiences. I woke up a bit anxious and just felt a bit… stuck.

I am considering now removing the cornices as most of it is cracked too, and I’m worried they may pull away eventually too.

Does anyone know where I can get cornices from with the Victorian/Edwardian look? I have no idea where to start. Also, it makes me sad we might lose these original cornices. Am I being OTT? Is it normal to replace original cornices?

Just incase it’s helpful to anyone, the plasterer i spoke to quoted the following if they did all the work with the different options of keeping original cornices vs. removing them:

=====
Master bedroom-
Remove cornice (£200)
Remove ceiling £900
Plaster board ceiling £500
Skim ceiling £300
Total: £1700

Dining room-
Remove coving (£200)
Remove ceiling £800
Plasterboard ceiling £500
Plaster ceiling £300
Total: £1800

These prices include materials, labour and removal of rubbish.
======

I do still think the price is a bit much, although seemed like a nice guy. Like some of you said, I can see it from the plasterer’s perspective though. I think the prices are maybe on the higher end.

Thanks again (I love this forum!)

 

[paulc]

We replaced with 9mm plasterboard and the sound transmission between ground and first floor is really noticeable.

In hindsight we could have used soundbloc plasterboard (or whatever it's called) or even shoved some rockwool in between joists... If I was doing this now that's exactly what I'd do.

Skimming a ceiling once the board is up isn't a huge job for a plasterer, I think we paid £400 or £500 or similar. That might have included the boarding.

Over boarding is possible but you are then adding extra weight to the joists.

I used 12.5mm plasterboard here and stuffed the void with fibreglass insulation. In the lounge, impact noise from footfall is a little more noticeable, but not excessive to my ear. Can't say if I've noticed any difference in noise levels from say the TV or radio. In the bedrooms upstairs, there is nothing above in the loft space, so noise transmission is of little concern.
Overboarding is an option, but it is hit and miss as to whether the screws go in to a joist - If you've only got 2" wide timbers, marking out has to be spot on - And yes, always use screws, not nails like the did in years gone by. Nails "pop" where as screws are in for good.
I paid for a "professional" plasterer to do one ceiling, and was very disappointed with the quality of work. So much so, I thought "I can do better than that". Did a short course with the local adult education department, and have since done a couple of ceilings my self. Whilst the finish isn't perfect, it is much better than the "professional".. The kitchen ceiling got done with plasterboard, given a coat of Febond Blue Grit, and skimmed with lime.

 

[Cubist]

Check out UK Plaster using the link below. They supply a wide range to the DIY market as do many other suppliers a quick search on the term 'plaster mouldings' will find many and some perhaps in your area.

BTW - if you're trying to match a particular profile you need to have measured all its key dimensions beforehand.

UK Plaster - The UK's Larger Plaster Moulding Range

Manufactures of ornamental plaster products. Ranges include: Plaster Mouldings, Victorian Style, Edwardian & London styles, Ceiling Centres, Dados Rails, Corbels and Panel Moulding. See our huge range online.

ukplaster.com

 

[Coles]

My house is of a similar date and we are doing renovation work. The ceiling in the hallway is rather damaged and the builder wanted to remove it all but I stopped him. It would ruin the cornice. So instead we are looking at a repair.

The cornice was done in situ and is a work of art in my opinion and it will be a last resort before it had to come off.

This forum really helped with methods to repair.

If you do have to take it down get someone to take a moulding of the profile. Then get it replicated, again not cheap but worth it in my opinion.

 

[Kearn]

Hi all, I have a 1907 Edwardian property.

In my master bedroom, I have a pretty awful ceiling with a lot of cracks through it. Surveyor said it might collapse eventually. It’s gypsum plaster on laths. It has pretty cornices around it which I want preserved.

For removal of the plaster, laths and applying plasterboard and then a skim plaster, I’ve been quoted £1,700 + VAT. This is for this one ceiling alone. It is about 16metres squared.

I think £1,700 is extortionate and I will be seeking more quotes. I think it shouldn’t be more than £900, but maybe I’m wrong.

My question is, has anyone removed the plaster from their lath ceilings before? I am hoping this might cut the cost a bit.

Do you also have recommendations on how to deal with plasterboard on ceilings etc?

Thank you

As many have said, it’s not really a job anyone wants to do as it’s hideously messy, so expect pricing to mirror that desire. Getting 8x4 sheets of plasterboard above your head isn’t much fun either, nor is skimming ceilings.

However, please don’t destroy an original ceiling. You should retain not just the decorative work but the main ceiling plaster for so many reasons.

Surveyors have very half empty glasses and a pessimistic liability avoidance perspective on life. Get a lime specialist in and they’ll tell you whether it’s repairable or not, but a few cracks aren’t the end of the world. Lime is incredibly forgiving, great thermally especially in a bedroom where it helps moisture manage, sound proof, thermal insulation.

Photos would help.

Ideally you want to see from above, which is easier said than done, to assess the state of the nibs through the laths. But expect that some tactically placed stainless screws and penny washers and discrete repairs can be done and nobody will tell the difference.

How did you calculate £900? That’s not much more than 3 man days labour, let alone materials, disposal costs etc…

 

[Apasc]

Will overboarding not create sound issues without insulation in void, and would insulation in void not create a condensation issue?

 

[Jonty1234]

Not sure where you are based but, if it's in / around south west london the place below might be of interest. I haven't used them myself but have been past a few times and wondered if they would be able to help us in future. Reviews also seem to be reasonable.

Classic Cornice Co - Plaster Coving & Plaster Mouldings London

If you are looking for plaster coving or plaster mouldings in London or anywhere in the UK then check out what we offer here at Classic Cornice Co.

www.classiccornice.co.uk

If you have already found a solution it would be great to hear what you did.