Removing interior cement pointing and replacing with lime

[JoceAndChris]

Has anyone done this themselves - if so, how? I'd particularly like to know how the raking out is done, as I can't imagine I'd do the repointing myself.

Has anyone paid a tradesman to do this? I wonder how much it would cost - initially I'd like to a room that's around 4 square metres - a section of the kitchen.

I've just swept an exposed stone wall in my basement kitchen, with cement pointing, measuring 2.65 by 2 metres, and I removed 1.5 kilos of brick/stone dust and crusty efflorescence. It hasn't been done in over a year so it was particularly bad. (I'm cleaning up for the cleaner!) Is that advanced stone rot? Will the wall fall down? (it's 1 feet and 7 inches thick, so I hope not!)

Any advice gratefully appreciated. The walls and ceiling must eventually be replastered, but I'm very reluctant to put lime plaster over cementitious pointing.

 

[skier-hughes]

Has anyone done this themselves - if so, how? I'd particularly like to know how the raking out is done, as I can't imagine I'd do the repointing myself. They used a special machine for doing it, rather than doing by hand, but I can't remember what it wa called, but had very slim rakers for period joints

Has anyone paid a tradesman to do this? I wonder how much it would cost - initially I'd like to a room that's around 4 square metres - a section of the kitchen. £100 a square metre all in raking pointing supplying materials.

I've just swept an exposed stone wall in my basement kitchen, with cement pointing, measuring 2.65 by 2 metres, and I removed 1.5 kilos of brick/stone dust and crusty efflorescence. It hasn't been done in over a year so it was particularly bad. (I'm cleaning up for the cleaner!) Is that advanced stone rot? Nope, sounds more like brain rot to me Will the wall fall down? (it's 1 feet and 7 inches thick, so I hope not!)

Any advice gratefully appreciated. The walls and ceiling must eventually be replastered, but I'm very reluctant to put lime plaster over cementitious pointing.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Graham, that's marvellously useful - apart from the bit where you accuse me of brain rot - but I suppose you have a point so I forgive you.

How amazing the machine with the slim rakers for period joints sounds! At that sort of price I see no point doing it myself as it sounds like the kind of job where I'd find myself inadvertently smashing up the Georgian brick.

Was this all done by the nice people who came to stay with you? Come to think of it ISTR they were nice ladies, which makes total sense now I've seen you FB pics and read about your cooking.

Even though I have very little to tempt nice ladies with, I wonder if they'd come and stay with me and sort that bit of the kitchen out.

 

[Penners]

Your problem with this job, Joce, is that you have conflicting demands. On the one hand, you'll undoubtedly want the cement mortar raked out as quickly and efficiently as possible - which implies power tools. On the other hand you don't want the work to cause damage to the masonry.

Is this a stone wall or brick? If it's brick, that makes it a bit easier to use something like a powered chaser, because the mortar lines are straight. http://www.pwm-distribution.com/html/brick_raking.html.

But if it's stone, then a powered tool like those can cause an awful lot of damage by just carving straight lines and hacking off nibs, edges and corners of stones willy-nilly. Under these circumstances, probably the only way to avoid such damage is to hack out the mortar by hand, with a plugging chisel - something like this: http://tinyurl.com/24xjby5. But it all depends on how skilled and experienced your tradesman is.

So you need to discuss with him in some detail how you want the job done - perhaps more importantly how you don't want it done.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Many thanks for those enlightened comments Mr P, and suggestions of tools. I prefer the sound of the softer approach, with hand tools.

The one that's dusting so badly is a stone wall with a barrel vaulted brick ceiling. The ceiling is in a bad state too, sometimes pieces of brick the size of conkers just randomly fall down. It should never have been sandblasted and cement pointed, what a terrible, ignorant thing to do.

As I mentioned my plan is to get it lime plastered, which will cover the damage already done and the damage that will be done in raking out the cement.

Edit -pics

 

[Moo]

Nothing to contribute to the topic of cement render removal, I'm afraid, but those pictures give a pretty good clue as to why you're feeling the need for staff.
All those gleaming brass and copper pans hanging around - how often do they need cleaning to keep them like that?

 

[skier-hughes]

This is the tool they used.
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/arbortech-as160-allsaw-brick-and-mortar-saw-240v-p8962
I supose though having a tool adn nowing how to use it properly are two different things, but they didn't cause any problems or damage any bricks.

 

[Feltwell]

Blimey - a great bit of kit I'm sure, but at that price you'd definitely need to be a tradesman (or woman) with a regular use to justify that expense.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Good heavens. We aren't having one of those. Thanks again to Graham for the link to the fantastic people he used, let's hope they might consider coming here.

Nothing to contribute to the topic of cement render removal, I'm afraid, but those pictures give a pretty good clue as to why you're feeling the need for staff.
All those gleaming brass and copper pans hanging around - how often do they need cleaning to keep them like that?

I know - I never do anything by halves, as you'll see when you come. I'm now realising how labour intensive my interpretation of a farmhouse kitchen is!

 

[Ushy M]

I can't imagine I'd do the repointing myself.

Joce, it may not be as difficult as you think but I think it is a job more readily done by 2 people. We've just removed the cement pointing from our external gable end wall (it came off fairly readily with careful chipping as most of it hadn't adhered properly to the layer of lime below in any case) and finished the repointing in lime on Monday. Mr M applys the mortar with a pointing gun and I follow with a short piece of hosepipe to push the mortar into the joint and then sweep a brush along to finish it off. It's an oddly satisfying activity. We've been careful not to over-point or do the horrible, damaging ribbon or strip pointing that you see spoiling old stonework.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Goodness me. Well done! Was that your first repointing job? Very brave if so!

I don't think I'll be tackling it myself, the cement seems pretty firmly adhered and the bricks by contrast extremely fragile. I don't think I'm experienced or gentle enough.