Removing cement based render

[judy]

Dear all,
Looking for some guidance on re-rendering our house. We're in the process of removing the cement render from our 1830ish red brick double fronted house in North essex, formerly a shop which was sadly bashed about a lot in the 1970's. The old windows were removed and cheap ones out in which are rotten, the render is blown all over the place and we have multiple damp issues. Did one side of the house 18 months back along with five windows (mixture of casement at the back and sash at the front (we have different levels within the house and differnt window size and proportions) made to measure in timber with single glazing although went for the slightly thicker glass) the front is being done now with a further four windows.

The brickwork is in very poor condition around the windows in particular from the work done in the 70's, and some have been damaged in removing the render, the faces stuck fast to the cement unfortunately. Although the side that's render free coped ok last winter I'm not convinced it will do longer term and so we're thinking of re-rendering with something lime based. Our builder (who doesn't do rendering himself) has suggested leaving the bottom of the walls below the bevel brick and rendering above with lead over the bevel. I should also mention the house is directly onto the road on two sides of the house with Tarmac directly up to the walls and on a slope at the front so that ground level is higher on one side than the other (by about four courses of bricks) Also complicated by two basement windows either side of the front door that are being replaced as the existing surrounds have crumbled.

I've been researching as much as possible but I'm new to this - what questions should I be asking potential contractors?

And finally, we are also removing ugly white plastic guttering - if we chose cast iron can anyone give me a ball park indication of what we'd be looking at for a four bed house? I have no clue what guttering costs!

I have a picture which I tried to attach but it says the image is too large, I'll try and figure out how to shrink it.

 

[Zebra]

You seem to be doing well with removing the render, although your house seems to have many challenges. You could try asking a supplier of lime products which lime product they would recommend. I would guess that a Natural Hydraulic Lime render would be most suitable, as one made from putty would be too soft for your situation.
Rendering contractors will try to lead you towards products with which they are familiar, and it might be best to ignore their advice. Therefore you could either find a contractor specifically geared towards lime products - try asking the suppliers for recommendations - or you could choose your product, and then get a contractor in simply for their trowel skills, and tell them "stick that stuff on there for me, I'll be responsible for the results." This might allow them to feel more comfortable trying something new. Some of the suppliers even do "trowel talks" where a representative from the lime supplier comes out to talk to the contractors on site.

 

[livias]

You coukd try talking to Anglia Lime, a lime supplier based near Sudbury. I have always found them to be very helpful, will come to site to discuss your needs and they can probably recommend contractors too

 

[formerly known as]

in my opinion, all plasters or renders should be from non hydraulic lime unless the backing is modern blockwork or in very exposed locations. Even NHL 3.5 is far too strong and not as permeable as non hydraulic. If the brickwork is damp at the moment, I would leave it for as long as you can to dry and harden up. Sections of red brick walling on my current project were so soft after removing cement render that one could push ones finger into the surface - a year later and the brick has dried and hardened - this is what you need to be rendering onto, not a sodden wall. Agreed that the lead drip detail is good, but you will need a mesh over the lead for the render to take - I would suggest that this is the only place that you will need to mesh.

 

[formerly known as]

Also, if you can prove to the highways department that the adjacent highway is partly responsible for any damp problems, then they 'might' be persuaded to remediate, or at least allow you to do so to an agreed detail. In the event that ground levels / falls cannot be adjusted, the answer will invariably be the use of surface water drainage.

 

[MatthewC]

What level is the floor in relation to the tarmac outside, and what are the floors made of? Is your basement damp?

Questions to ask potential contractors - a good question in itself. You need to ensure that they buy into the philosophy of breathability, or else you will find them doing things like adding waterproofer or plasticiser to the lime mix (!), or painting some gunk called SBR onto the wall to help adhesion, or doing other similar things which they think would help (and they do it while your back is turned). Equally the use of metal mesh or edgings is to be avoided - I think it is anything galvanised which reacts to lime in the long term, but stainless steel is OK.

If they haven't used lime before, they will need to be educated about air temperatures and the time it takes to go off, but they will be surprised at how workable it is. I used a plasterer who had only worked with lime on his training and he picked it up very quickly; however, I took a variable out of the equation by buying ready mixed mortar, although it is cheaper to buy lime putty and mix it yourself.

 

[judy]

The basement was tanked via insurance when the previous owner was here - a mains water feed flooded the basement. There's now a pump with an alarm so the basement is good. A bit cold as the central heating pump isn't powerful enough for three floors (another job on the long list), but it is dry!

The floor level inside the front door is broadly level with the road, perhaps an inch or so lower inside. To the side where the external level rises it must be 6 or 8 inches below, however we've not had any damp evident in that corner, I think probably because there is a solid brick and flint wall at right angles to that corner of the house which offers some protection plus there's a quince bush just outside that corner that could be drawing moisture away too.

Will have a look at shrinking photo

 

[88v8]

Windows Photo editor
In the thumbnails, Edit
[if you don't want to lose the original high-def picture, at this stage do Save As and name it ....smaller]
Back into edit... and Resize
Pixels
850 x will usually do it, I forget the forum limit.
Save

Or use Photobucket and copy/paste the img code, then no need to resize.

Gutter... I just paid Longbottom £537 for 24' of 4" gutter, 6' of downpipe, one nozzle, one swan, one foot, ten cast brackets. three stopends. That was for die-cast. If I had opted for the sand-cast, more than £2,000 (two thousand). I used the sand-cast for a short run at the back of the house where it is really really visible, for 6ft of 3" gutter and 2" downpipe it was over £600.
But they are the Rolls-Royce of ironwork.
If your gutter is to be viewed from a normal distance so the appearance isn't absolutely critical, I would go to your local roofing specialist and look at their aluminium iron-lookalike. Much cheaper, and you can even get it ready-coated in black or standard colours. If you buy it in bare metal, bear in mind that aluminium requires a special primer.

Are you doing the whole house? If not, take along a sample of your existing gutter to ensure the new stuff will join to it OK, and don't be fobbed off with mumblings about tubes of sealant..

Ivor

 

[judy]

Enclosed resized picture of the house (I hope!)

 

[judy]

Definitely doing the guttering for the whole house but it doesn't have to all be done in one hit so we can spread the cost. The guttering at the back isn't visible to anyone but that at the front is massively so.

 

[88v8]

Longbottom
http://www.longbottomfoundry.co.uk/

There was a thread on here a while ago about repro period gutters, but I can't find it.

Handsome house. What's the door case, is it wood or stone?
Nice to have that squint corner, the sort of feature that modern builders wouldn't bother with.

Ivor

 

[judy]

Thank you! The corner used to be a doorway and was the entrance to the shop - a sweet shop and grocers I understand. Our kitchen was a bakery. An old lady came by the other day and told us she worked here until it closed in the 70's.

The door surround is wood and is in good condition, it was dismantled today, lovely hardwood frame. The cheap softwood door frame is rotten and being held together with screws and some foam stuff until we source a replacement, time for a hunt through the local reclaim yard!

I have a possible contractor for the rendering, he's working on a grade 1 listed house in the village at the moment so hopefully he'll know his stuff.

Thank you for the suggestions re: lime and guttering. Also need to figure out how to deal with the boundary between the house and the road at the front of the house - complicated by the door and two basement windows. Would a grill-covered channel be suitable? I can't figure out how to manage to channel the water away from the house. Also need to check where our boundary lies exactly. The Tarmac is very wiggly!